Re: All Vista Beta/Pre-Release Consumers (Not U IP Pro's!)

Posted: 06-24-2006, 06:06 PM
(crosspost added to Vista General Discussions)
"mikwiz" <mikwiz@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7C941E28-6DBD-43BC-BC92-4671E97303CD@microsoft.com
....
>I will try to be brief. First, though, to all Non-Vista IP's (64Pro's
> especially, and you know who you are) and have an axe to grind about Vista
> Consumers in this and ALL your PRECIOUS existing OLD newsgroups for HELP . .
> . Please get a life and be nice to us newbies on Vista and the RECOMMENDED BY
> MICROSOFT NEWSGROUPS (and all their sub-categories like Printers or Hardware,
> etc.).

It's not clear to me that you are yet completely aware of the real issue here.
It is not about the new product; it is soley about off-topic posting and being
asked to find a more appropriate newsgroup to post in. That is a standard
newsgroup convention, which is often handled with wildly varying degrees
of tact and helpfulness. ; )

> We are here by Microsoft's invitation, not existing years-old Newsgroupies
> whom, some of which have a great wealth of knowledge to give us, but some
> others are OLD and RESISTANT to CHANGE and UPSET with Vista newbies and the
> "Vista Microsoft Mail team" for putting us in their Precious older
> forums/blogs/chats, et. all.
> LOL.

Yes you are (or at least you have been given that impression)
--assuming you are entering through this web portal:

http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...s/default.mspx

> Here's the deal on the Vista Beta releases as of 6/22/06 for my own systems
> and the "Windows Vista Newsgroups Home" website and pages THAT I HAVE
> EXPLORED to some extent.
> Being conscious, I discovered Microsft (M) has been/is/ developing Vista to
> REPLACE all older WINDOWS operating systems
....


Windows Vista is not the issue. The issue is only what is known
as posting "off-topic" and not finding the best newsgroup to post in
or at least being aware when you may be posting in an existing
common newsgroup and the confusion that that can cause
when you don't explicitly identify the context of your post.

Another reason for being redirected to more Vista-aware newsgroups
is that you may find a broader more knowledgeable audience elsewhere,
even if your post is on-topic in a common newsgroup. For example,
that may be why Vista posters find their posts redirected to the
Vista General NG (which I have crossposted this reply to.)

> This website and ALL links on this website is where I EXPLICITLY have been
> given for VISTA SUPPORT by MICROSOFT through Microsoft.com website, limited
> as it is, following the links from Microsoft.com to Vista, which is a Top
> Link on their homepage, and then to their Vista Support links which
> ultimately leads you to the Newsgroups for Windows Vista, where on the left
> sidebar, there is "Windows Vista Newsgroups Home", and with subcategories
> benesth like "Admin. . . .", "Find. . . ", "Games". . . ,"Hardware '. . .
> etc. for about another 10 or 15 linked subcategories.
> BEWARE!!!!
> These links and subcategories are not necessarilly specific to Windows
> Vista! They MAY include Internet Explorer 7/7+ newbies and XP-Pro oldbies,
> both of which are for the most part cool people and will help, but there are
> some in both IE7/7+ & XPPro64 oldbies and techies both, who will be pissed at
> you for pissing on their dogigie-like territory.
> DON"T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT!

Depending on how you view that website you are right.
From a different perspective the problem is that that page
has some poorly chosen links in it which cause Vista users
to post off-topic and keep them oblivious of other better choices
of newsgroup. Worse, they aren't being made aware when they
are posting to a common newsgroup, such as this one,
and hence are confused when they find that all discussions
here are not related to Vista. At the very least I think that
that menu should provide users with a clue when they are
posting to common newsgroups so that they understand
the need to associate their posts with Vista explicitly.


Specifically, doing a View Source of that menu frame
and a find for ?dg= finds these links to "common" (non-Vista)
newsgroups:

Note: these links are too long for even my longest linesize
so I am chopping them at the &amp; character constant
and at the anchor label to make that clearer.
They are relative URLs anyway, so I'm not sure how usable
they will be in general.

<examples>
<a href="/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.public.internetexplorer. general
&amp;lang=en&amp;cr=US&amp;r=ad4c8437-4e6e-499d-a48f-f80a663ba699">
Printing, Faxing, &amp; Scanning</a>

<a href="/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.public.internetexplorer. general
&amp;lang=en&amp;cr=US&amp;r=4530ac84-fbaa-48d4-9392-7be74410c3d7">
Internet Explorer</a>

<a href="/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.mediacent er
&amp;lang=en&amp;cr=US&amp;r=569f5f5e-087a-4748-bf27-c6829af79b0d">
Media Center PC</a>

<a href="/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc
&amp;lang=en&amp;cr=US&amp;r=4f96c876-258e-41b8-a5a3-f858948bcbee">
Tablet PC</a>

<a href="/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.64bit.gen eral
&amp;lang=en&amp;cr=US&amp;r=b7945a49-1582-4e99-b932-32fc064ebe5e">
Windows 64-Bit Computing</a>

<a href="/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.public.windowsupdate
&amp;lang=en&amp;cr=US&amp;r=35a08973-862c-479d-b043-0aca832430b1">
Windows Update</a>

</examples>


The first one, "Printing Faxing & Scanning" is just obviously wrong.
It could be going here instead: microsoft.public.windows.vista.print_fax_scan
Even if that didn't exist I think microsoft.public.windows.vista.hardware_devices
would have made more sense than pointing them at the IE NG.

Unfortunately the provided portal isn't aware of that first newsgroup
so you would either have to use NNTP (e.g. for your spiffy
new Windows Mail app enter in an IE Address bar:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/
and then type: c.w vist
to see all the Vista newsgroups)

or find a different portal which does
include the others, such as this one:

http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.aspx

then open the menu tree at:
[English]
[Windows]
[Windows Vista]

I think that using (or at least being aware of) that menu tree would give
Vista users a better perspective about where they are posting and how
their posts might be received, particularly if they aren't clear about
identifying their context when posting to common newsgroups.


FYI

Robert Aldwinckle
---


Re: All Vista Beta/Pre-Release Consumers (Not U IP Pro's!)


Responses to "Re: All Vista Beta/Pre-Release Consumers (Not U IP Pro's!)"

Colin Barnhorst
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: All Vista Beta/Pre-Release Consumers (Not U IP Pro's!)
Posted: 06-24-2006, 07:09 PM
Excellent post.

"Robert Aldwinckle" <robald@techemail.com> wrote in message
news:uDL5kj7lGHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> (crosspost added to Vista General Discussions)
> "mikwiz" <mikwiz@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:7C941E28-6DBD-43BC-BC92-4671E97303CD@microsoft.com
> ...
>>I will try to be brief. First, though, to all Non-Vista IP's (64Pro's
>> especially, and you know who you are) and have an axe to grind about
>> Vista
>> Consumers in this and ALL your PRECIOUS existing OLD newsgroups for HELP
>> . .
>> . Please get a life and be nice to us newbies on Vista and the
>> RECOMMENDED BY
>> MICROSOFT NEWSGROUPS (and all their sub-categories like Printers or
>> Hardware,
>> etc.).
>
>
> It's not clear to me that you are yet completely aware of the real issue
> here.
> It is not about the new product; it is soley about off-topic posting and
> being
> asked to find a more appropriate newsgroup to post in. That is a
> standard
> newsgroup convention, which is often handled with wildly varying degrees
> of tact and helpfulness. ; )
>
>
>> We are here by Microsoft's invitation, not existing years-old
>> Newsgroupies
>> whom, some of which have a great wealth of knowledge to give us, but some
>> others are OLD and RESISTANT to CHANGE and UPSET with Vista newbies and
>> the
>> "Vista Microsoft Mail team" for putting us in their Precious older
>> forums/blogs/chats, et. all.
>> LOL.
>
>
> Yes you are (or at least you have been given that impression)
> --assuming you are entering through this web portal:
>
> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...s/default.mspx
>
>
>> Here's the deal on the Vista Beta releases as of 6/22/06 for my own
>> systems
>> and the "Windows Vista Newsgroups Home" website and pages THAT I HAVE
>> EXPLORED to some extent.
>> Being conscious, I discovered Microsft (M) has been/is/ developing Vista
>> to
>> REPLACE all older WINDOWS operating systems
> ...
>
>
> Windows Vista is not the issue. The issue is only what is known
> as posting "off-topic" and not finding the best newsgroup to post in
> or at least being aware when you may be posting in an existing
> common newsgroup and the confusion that that can cause
> when you don't explicitly identify the context of your post.
>
> Another reason for being redirected to more Vista-aware newsgroups
> is that you may find a broader more knowledgeable audience elsewhere,
> even if your post is on-topic in a common newsgroup. For example,
> that may be why Vista posters find their posts redirected to the
> Vista General NG (which I have crossposted this reply to.)
>
>
>> This website and ALL links on this website is where I EXPLICITLY have
>> been
>> given for VISTA SUPPORT by MICROSOFT through Microsoft.com website,
>> limited
>> as it is, following the links from Microsoft.com to Vista, which is a Top
>> Link on their homepage, and then to their Vista Support links which
>> ultimately leads you to the Newsgroups for Windows Vista, where on the
>> left
>> sidebar, there is "Windows Vista Newsgroups Home", and with subcategories
>> benesth like "Admin. . . .", "Find. . . ", "Games". . . ,"Hardware '. . .
>> etc. for about another 10 or 15 linked subcategories.
>> BEWARE!!!!
>> These links and subcategories are not necessarilly specific to Windows
>> Vista! They MAY include Internet Explorer 7/7+ newbies and XP-Pro
>> oldbies,
>> both of which are for the most part cool people and will help, but there
>> are
>> some in both IE7/7+ & XPPro64 oldbies and techies both, who will be
>> pissed at
>> you for pissing on their dogigie-like territory.
>> DON"T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT!
>
>
> Depending on how you view that website you are right.
> From a different perspective the problem is that that page
> has some poorly chosen links in it which cause Vista users
> to post off-topic and keep them oblivious of other better choices
> of newsgroup. Worse, they aren't being made aware when they
> are posting to a common newsgroup, such as this one,
> and hence are confused when they find that all discussions
> here are not related to Vista. At the very least I think that
> that menu should provide users with a clue when they are
> posting to common newsgroups so that they understand
> the need to associate their posts with Vista explicitly.
>
>
> Specifically, doing a View Source of that menu frame
> and a find for ?dg= finds these links to "common" (non-Vista)
> newsgroups:
>
> Note: these links are too long for even my longest linesize
> so I am chopping them at the &amp; character constant
> and at the anchor label to make that clearer.
> They are relative URLs anyway, so I'm not sure how usable
> they will be in general.
>
> <examples>
> <a
> href="/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.public.internetexplorer. general
> &amp;lang=en&amp;cr=US&amp;r=ad4c8437-4e6e-499d-a48f-f80a663ba699">
> Printing, Faxing, &amp; Scanning</a>
>
> <a
> href="/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.public.internetexplorer. general
> &amp;lang=en&amp;cr=US&amp;r=4530ac84-fbaa-48d4-9392-7be74410c3d7">
> Internet Explorer</a>
>
> <a
> href="/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.mediacent er
> &amp;lang=en&amp;cr=US&amp;r=569f5f5e-087a-4748-bf27-c6829af79b0d">
> Media Center PC</a>
>
> <a
> href="/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc
> &amp;lang=en&amp;cr=US&amp;r=4f96c876-258e-41b8-a5a3-f858948bcbee">
> Tablet PC</a>
>
> <a
> href="/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.64bit.gen eral
> &amp;lang=en&amp;cr=US&amp;r=b7945a49-1582-4e99-b932-32fc064ebe5e">
> Windows 64-Bit Computing</a>
>
> <a
> href="/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.public.windowsupdate
> &amp;lang=en&amp;cr=US&amp;r=35a08973-862c-479d-b043-0aca832430b1">
> Windows Update</a>
>
> </examples>
>
>
> The first one, "Printing Faxing & Scanning" is just obviously wrong.
> It could be going here instead:
> microsoft.public.windows.vista.print_fax_scan
> Even if that didn't exist I think
> microsoft.public.windows.vista.hardware_devices
> would have made more sense than pointing them at the IE NG.
>
> Unfortunately the provided portal isn't aware of that first newsgroup
> so you would either have to use NNTP (e.g. for your spiffy
> new Windows Mail app enter in an IE Address bar:
> news://msnews.microsoft.com/
> and then type: c.w vist
> to see all the Vista newsgroups)
>
> or find a different portal which does
> include the others, such as this one:
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.aspx
>
> then open the menu tree at:
> [English]
> [Windows]
> [Windows Vista]
>
> I think that using (or at least being aware of) that menu tree would give
> Vista users a better perspective about where they are posting and how
> their posts might be received, particularly if they aren't clear about
> identifying their context when posting to common newsgroups.
>
>
> FYI
>
> Robert Aldwinckle
> ---
>
>

 
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