Michael D. Ober
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: ANS: "What's the deal with UAC (Windows Needs Your Permission
Posted: 07-19-2008, 05:05 AM
Question - is the AV software you're using certified for Vista? The reason
I asked is that I had similar problems until I upgraded my AV software from
"compatible with" to a version that was "certified".

Mike Ober.


"Ernst" <Ernst@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7ABC1D88-874F-41A7-94FC-5A9B4084E284@microsoft.com...
> Charlie, Thank you for this extensive respons. Yes I understand what you
> are
> saying, but this was already clear to me from the earlier part of the
> thread.
> I also agree with the principal behind it. I have worked for many years
> with
> firewalls like ZoneAlarm and Comodo that use a similar principal: Ask the
> user what program is allowed access (the computer or the internet).
> However,
> these firewalls have never stopped me from doing the work that I need
> doing
> on my PC. UAC is. If this UAC is applied it should work properly, both in
> protection AND in giving access when given permission by me as
> administrator
> to do so. As I have described in my previous post, I cannot copy files
> within
> my user directory (from pictures to documents) even after starting
> Explorer
> up with administrator rights (right mouse button). Vista Home still tells
> me
> I do not have the correct authorisation. Never mind the fact that my owner
> directory is a mess after having stored (diverted) subdirectories on a
> different drive using the directions provided by Help. Basically this is a
> different problem, but they might be related. Ever since redirecting the
> pictures and the documents folders to the D-drive, the folder I had stored
> them in on the D-Drive has disappeared from view, including all the other
> files and subdirectories that it contained. I guess they are all still
> somewhere on the system, but I cannot see and thus cannot access them
> anymore. Other files and folders have switched directory. The example I
> gave
> was my bookkeeping folder. This folder used to be stored in 'Documents'.
> Since the divertion it is stored in the 'Pictures' directory. Go figure.
> Now, is the only way to reorganise my user directory to go 'root' and
> temporarily turn off UAC or is there another way to achieve this? To put
> it
> in another way: How can I make UAC do its job all the way? And HOW would I
> be
> able to temporarily turn UAC off by the time I loose my patience
> completely?
> And when I say temporarily, I mean temporarily, because I do agree with
> the
> basic idea of UAC.
> Thank you.
> Ernst
>
> "Charlie Tame" wrote:
>
>> Ernst, the UAC system is Microsoft's way of putting the horse back in
>> front of the cart.
>>
>> The convention with Unix / Linux has always been to have one admin -
>> "Root" and everyone else as users.
>>
>> Generally it's been the opposite with Windows.
>>
>> Unfortunately Vista does not "Explain" that as the "Owner" or
>> "Installer" of the system you are really only a privileged "User". The
>> impressions is that you are "Special" because in the past you always
>> were.
>>
>> With Linux it has been convention for years that running as "Root" is a
>> bad thing, and the more sophisticated the software you are using
>> (Graphical User Interface for example) the more dangerous that would be
>> because quite simply there's more chance of a bug letting bad things
>> happen.
>>
>> So to do anything with older Linux you would sign out as "Ernst" and
>> back in as "Root". Normally neither "Ernst" nor malware could do much to
>> damage the system.
>>
>> Later versions allow "Ernst" to use the command "SUDO" (or similar) to
>> temporarily gain admin rights (Root) for one specific task or groups of
>> tasks.
>>
>> With Windows the convention has been the wrong way around, and this is a
>> kind of "Legacy" carried on by the users who expect to always have
>> total control at all times. Unfortunately this also gives a bad guy at
>> your desktop, a bad guy with a remote terminal or bad software the same
>> control.
>>
>> So although I think UAC is a clumsy and sometimes annoying way of trying
>> to persuade people to do it the right way, it is an advisory tool that
>> has some merit. It is NOT per-se increased security if you are silly and
>> let things you are unaware of do what they ask, any more than the Linux
>> method is "Security" if you become "Root" and let unknown software take
>> actions it requests.
>>
>> In some circumstances signing in as "Root" might be acceptable, in your
>> case it probably was, but with the amount of malware, spyware and stuff
>> targeting Windows these days most users who were running as full admin
>> were in danger.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ernst wrote:
>> > Exellent explanation Jimmy. Thank You. I now, after months of using
>> > Vista and
>> > hours of searching the net, understand the basic reasoning behind all
>> > my
>> > suffering. It makes a lot of sense and I will definitely make myself a
>> > seperate user account for daily use. Having said this I do not believe
>> > Microsoft is going to get the everage Joe to go through such a steep
>> > learning
>> > curve. Also, giving a program temporary administrator rights does not
>> > work
>> > with my very first attempt on Explorer. A numeber of files and folders
>> > have
>> > either been hidden, deleted or placed elsewhere by Vista when
>> > re-directing
>> > the documents and picture folders to another drive (following
>> > directions by
>> > MS Help). F.i. folders from my documents directory have ended up inside
>> > my
>> > pictures directory. When trying to reorganise with Explorer (with
>> > administrator rights) I still get pop ups telling me I am not
>> > authorised to
>> > perform these tasks. I know MS is trying to give me control, but it
>> > sure does
>> > not feel like it.
>> > My only option seems to be to temporarily switch off UAC to get
>> > reorganised.
>> > Any other suggestions? Ernst
>> >
>> > "Jimmy Brush" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hello,
>> >>
>> >> I've noticed that a lot of the questions in these newsgroups are
>> >> either
>> >> directly or indirectly related to UAC (User Account Control). In this
>> >> post,
>> >> I will go over what UAC does, how it works, the reasoning behind it,
>> >> how to
>> >> use your computer with UAC on, why you shouldn't turn UAC off, and
>> >> answer
>> >> some common questions and respond to common complaints about it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> * What is UAC and what does it do?
>> >>
>> >> UAC mode (also known as Admin Approval Mode) is a mode of operation
>> >> that
>> >> (primarily) affects the way administrator accounts work.
>> >>
>> >> When UAC is turned on (which it is by default), you must explicitly
>> >> give
>> >> permission to any program that wants to use "administrator" powers.
>> >> Any
>> >> program that tries to use admin powers without your permission will be
>> >> denied access.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> * How does UAC work
>> >>
>> >> When UAC mode is enabled, every program that you run will be given
>> >> only
>> >> "standard user" access to the system, even when you are logged in as
>> >> an
>> >> administrator. There are only 2 ways that a program can be "elevated"
>> >> to get
>> >> full admin access to the system:
>> >>
>> >> - If it automatically asks you for permission when it starts up, and
>> >> you
>> >> click Continue
>> >> - If you start the program with permission by right-clicking it, then
>> >> clicking Run As Administrator
>> >>
>> >> A program either starts with STANDARD rights or, if you give
>> >> permission,
>> >> ADMINISTRATOR rights, and once the program is running it cannot change
>> >> from
>> >> one to the other.
>> >>
>> >> If a program that you have already started with admin powers starts
>> >> another
>> >> program, that program will automatically be given admin powers without
>> >> needing your permission. For example, if you start Windows Explorer as
>> >> administrator, and then double-click on a text file, notepad will open
>> >> and
>> >> display the contents of the text file. Since notepad was opened from
>> >> the
>> >> admin explorer window, notepad WILL ALSO automatically run WITH admin
>> >> powers, and will not ask for permission.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> * What's the point of UAC?
>> >>
>> >> UAC is designed to put control of your computer back into your hands,
>> >> instead of at the mercy of the programs running on your computer.
>> >>
>> >> When logged in as an administrator in Windows XP, any program that
>> >> could
>> >> somehow get itself started could take control of the entire computer
>> >> without
>> >> you even knowing about it.
>> >>
>> >> With UAC turned on, you must know about and authorize a program in
>> >> order for
>> >> it to gain admin access to the system, REGARDLESS of how the program
>> >> got
>> >> there or how it is started.
>> >>
>> >> This is important to all levels of users - from home users to
>> >> enterprise
>> >> administrators. Being alerted when any program tries to use admin
>> >> powers and
>> >> being able to unilaterally disallow a program from having such power
>> >> is a
>> >> VERY powerful ability. No longer is the security of the system
>> >> tantamount to
>> >> "crossing one's fingers and hoping for the best" - YOU now control
>> >> your
>> >> system.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> * How do I effectively use my computer with UAC turned on?
>> >>
>> >> It's easy. Just keep in mind that programs don't have admin access to
>> >> your
>> >> computer unless you give them permission. Microsoft programs that come
>> >> with
>> >> Windows Vista that need admin access will always ask for admin
>> >> permissions
>> >> when you start them. However, most other programs will not.
>> >>
>> >> This will change after Windows Vista is released - all Windows
>> >> Vista-era
>> >> programs that need admin power will always ask you for it. Until then,
>> >> you
>> >> will need to run programs that need administrative powers that were
>> >> not
>> >> designed for Windows Vista "as administrator".
>> >>
>> >> Command-line programs do not automatically ask for permission. Not
>> >> even the
>> >> built-in ones. You will need to run the command prompt "as
>> >> administrator" in
>> >> order to run administrative command-line utilities.
>> >>
>> >> Working with files and folders from Windows Explorer can be a real
>> >> pain when
>> >> you are not working with your own files. When you are needing to work
>> >> with
>> >> system files, files that you didn't create, or files from another
>> >> operating
>> >> system, run Windows Explorer "as administrator". In the same vein, ANY
>> >> program that you run that needs access to system files or files that
>> >> you
>> >> didn't create will need to be ran "as administrator".
>> >>
>> >> If you are going to be working with the control panel for a long time,
>> >> running control.exe "as administrator" will make things less painful -
>> >> you
>> >> will only be asked for permission once, instead of every time you try
>> >> to
>> >> change a system-wide setting.
>> >>
>> >> In short:
>> >>
>> >> - Run command prompt as admin when you need to run admin utilities
>> >> - Run setup programs as admin
>> >> - Run programs not designed for Vista as admin if (and only if) they
>> >> need
>> >> admin access
>> >> - Run Windows Explorer as admin when you need access to files that
>> >> aren't
>> >> yours or system files
>> >> - Run programs that need access to files that aren't yours or system
>> >> files
>> >> as admin
>> >> - Run control.exe as admin when changing many settings in the control
>> >> panel
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> * UAC is annoying, I want to turn it off
>> >>
>> >> Having to go through an extra step (clicking Continue) when opening
>> >> administrative programs is annoying. And it is also very frustrating
>> >> to run
>> >> a program that needs admin power but doesn't automatically ask you for
>> >> it
>> >> (you have to right-click these programs and click Run As Administrator
>> >> for
>> >> them to run correctly).
>> >>
>> >> But, keep in mind that these small inconveniences are insignificant
>> >> when
>> >> weighed against the benefit: NO PROGRAM can get full access to your
>> >> system
>> >> without you being informed. The first time the permission dialog pops
>> >> up and
>> >> it is from some program that you know nothing about or that you do not
>> >> want
>> >> to have access to your system, you will be very glad that the Cancel
>> >> button
>> >> was available to you.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> * Answers to common questions and responses to common criticism
>> >>
>> >> Q: I have anti-virus, a firewall, a spyware-detector, or something
>> >> similar.
>> >> Why do I need UAC?
>> >>
>> >> A: Detectors can only see known threats. And of all the known threats
>> >> in
>> >> existence, they only detect the most common of those threats. With UAC
>> >> turned on, *you* control what programs have access to your computer -
>> >> you
>> >> can stop ALL threats. Detectors are nice, but they're not enough. How
>> >> many
>> >> people do you know that have detectors of all kinds and yet are still
>> >> infested with programs that they don't want on their computer?
>> >> Everyone that
>> >> I have ever helped falls into this category.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Q: Does UAC replace anti-virus, a firewall, a spyware-detector, or
>> >> similar
>> >> programs?
>> >>
>> >> A: No. Microsoft recommends that you use a virus scanner and/or other
>> >> types
>> >> of security software. These types of programs compliment UAC: They
>> >> will get
>> >> rid of known threats for you. UAC will allow you to stop unknown
>> >> threats, as
>> >> well as prevent any program that you do not trust from gaining access
>> >> to
>> >> your computer.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Q: I am a system administrator - I have no use for UAC.
>> >>
>> >> A: Really? You don't NEED to know when a program on your computer runs
>> >> with
>> >> admin powers? You are a system administrator and you really could care
>> >> less
>> >> when a program runs that has full control of your system, and possibly
>> >> your
>> >> entire domain? You're joking, right?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Q: UAC keeps me from accessing files and folders
>> >>
>> >> A: No, it doesn't - UAC protects you from programs that would try to
>> >> delete
>> >> or modify system files and folders without your knowledge. If you want
>> >> a
>> >> program to have full access to the files on your computer, you will
>> >> need to
>> >> run it as admin. Or as an alternative, if possible, put the files it
>> >> needs
>> >> access to in a place that all programs have access to - such as your
>> >> documents folder, or any folder under your user folder.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Q: UAC stops programs from working correctly
>> >>
>> >> A: If a program needs admin power and it doesn't ask you for
>> >> permission when
>> >> it starts, you have to give it admin powers by right-clicking it and
>> >> clicking Run As Administrator. Programs should work like they did in
>> >> XP when
>> >> you use Run As Administrator. If they don't, then this is a bug.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Q: UAC keeps me from doing things that I could do in XP
>> >>
>> >> A: This is not the case. Just remember that programs that do not ask
>> >> for
>> >> permission when they start do not get admin access to your computer.
>> >> If you
>> >> are using a tool that needs admin access, right-click it and click Run
>> >> As
>> >> Administrator. It should work exactly as it did in XP. If it does not,
>> >> then
>> >> this is a bug.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Q: UAC is Microsoft's way of controlling my computer and preventing me
>> >> from
>> >> using it!
>> >>
>> >> A: This is 100% UNTRUE. UAC puts control of your computer IN YOUR
>> >> HANDS by
>> >> allowing you to prevent unwanted programs from accessing your
>> >> computer.
>> >> *Everything* that you can do with UAC turned off, you can do with it
>> >> turned
>> >> on. If this is not the case, then that is a bug.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Q: I don't need Windows to hold my freaking hand! I *know* what I've
>> >> got on
>> >> my computer, and I *know* when programs run! I am logged on as an
>> >> ADMINISTRATOR for a dang reason!
>> >>
>> >> A: I accept the way that you think, and can see the logic, but I don't
>> >> agree
>> >> with this idea. UAC is putting POWER in your hands by letting you
>> >> CONTROL
>> >> what runs on your system. But you want to give up this control and
>> >> allow all
>> >> programs to run willy-nilly. Look, if you want to do this go right
>> >> ahead,
>> >> you can turn UAC off and things will return to how they worked in XP.
>> >> But,
>> >> don't be surprised when either 1) You run something by mistake that
>> >> messes
>> >> up your computer and/or domain, or 2) A program somehow gets on your
>> >> computer that you know nothing about that takes over your computer
>> >> and/or
>> >> domain, and UAC would have allowed you to have stopped it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> - JB
>> >>
>> >> Vista Support FAQ
>> >> http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
>> >>
>>
>


Ernst
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: ANS: "What's the deal with UAC (Windows Needs Your Permission
Posted: 07-19-2008, 10:58 AM
Interesting point, Mike. Thank you. I am currently using a trial version of
Symantec's Internet Security version 10.2.0.30 that was pre-installed as OEM
software on my MSI PR 200 laptop. It shows a copyright registration of 2006.
I have looked on the Symantec site, but I could not determine the Vista
compatibility.
I also use Hitman Pro which updates itself and it's underlying software on a
regular basis.
Ernst


"Michael D. Ober" wrote:
> Question - is the AV software you're using certified for Vista? The reason
> I asked is that I had similar problems until I upgraded my AV software from
> "compatible with" to a version that was "certified".
>
> Mike Ober.
>
>
> "Ernst" <Ernst@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:7ABC1D88-874F-41A7-94FC-5A9B4084E284@microsoft.com...
> > Charlie, Thank you for this extensive respons. Yes I understand what you
> > are
> > saying, but this was already clear to me from the earlier part of the
> > thread.
> > I also agree with the principal behind it. I have worked for many years
> > with
> > firewalls like ZoneAlarm and Comodo that use a similar principal: Ask the
> > user what program is allowed access (the computer or the internet).
> > However,
> > these firewalls have never stopped me from doing the work that I need
> > doing
> > on my PC. UAC is. If this UAC is applied it should work properly, both in
> > protection AND in giving access when given permission by me as
> > administrator
> > to do so. As I have described in my previous post, I cannot copy files
> > within
> > my user directory (from pictures to documents) even after starting
> > Explorer
> > up with administrator rights (right mouse button). Vista Home still tells
> > me
> > I do not have the correct authorisation. Never mind the fact that my owner
> > directory is a mess after having stored (diverted) subdirectories on a
> > different drive using the directions provided by Help. Basically this is a
> > different problem, but they might be related. Ever since redirecting the
> > pictures and the documents folders to the D-drive, the folder I had stored
> > them in on the D-Drive has disappeared from view, including all the other
> > files and subdirectories that it contained. I guess they are all still
> > somewhere on the system, but I cannot see and thus cannot access them
> > anymore. Other files and folders have switched directory. The example I
> > gave
> > was my bookkeeping folder. This folder used to be stored in 'Documents'.
> > Since the divertion it is stored in the 'Pictures' directory. Go figure.
> > Now, is the only way to reorganise my user directory to go 'root' and
> > temporarily turn off UAC or is there another way to achieve this? To put
> > it
> > in another way: How can I make UAC do its job all the way? And HOW would I
> > be
> > able to temporarily turn UAC off by the time I loose my patience
> > completely?
> > And when I say temporarily, I mean temporarily, because I do agree with
> > the
> > basic idea of UAC.
> > Thank you.
> > Ernst
> >
> > "Charlie Tame" wrote:
> >
> >> Ernst, the UAC system is Microsoft's way of putting the horse back in
> >> front of the cart.
> >>
> >> The convention with Unix / Linux has always been to have one admin -
> >> "Root" and everyone else as users.
> >>
> >> Generally it's been the opposite with Windows.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately Vista does not "Explain" that as the "Owner" or
> >> "Installer" of the system you are really only a privileged "User". The
> >> impressions is that you are "Special" because in the past you always
> >> were.
> >>
> >> With Linux it has been convention for years that running as "Root" is a
> >> bad thing, and the more sophisticated the software you are using
> >> (Graphical User Interface for example) the more dangerous that would be
> >> because quite simply there's more chance of a bug letting bad things
> >> happen.
> >>
> >> So to do anything with older Linux you would sign out as "Ernst" and
> >> back in as "Root". Normally neither "Ernst" nor malware could do much to
> >> damage the system.
> >>
> >> Later versions allow "Ernst" to use the command "SUDO" (or similar) to
> >> temporarily gain admin rights (Root) for one specific task or groups of
> >> tasks.
> >>
> >> With Windows the convention has been the wrong way around, and this is a
> >> kind of "Legacy" carried on by the users who expect to always have
> >> total control at all times. Unfortunately this also gives a bad guy at
> >> your desktop, a bad guy with a remote terminal or bad software the same
> >> control.
> >>
> >> So although I think UAC is a clumsy and sometimes annoying way of trying
> >> to persuade people to do it the right way, it is an advisory tool that
> >> has some merit. It is NOT per-se increased security if you are silly and
> >> let things you are unaware of do what they ask, any more than the Linux
> >> method is "Security" if you become "Root" and let unknown software take
> >> actions it requests.
> >>
> >> In some circumstances signing in as "Root" might be acceptable, in your
> >> case it probably was, but with the amount of malware, spyware and stuff
> >> targeting Windows these days most users who were running as full admin
> >> were in danger.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ernst wrote:
> >> > Exellent explanation Jimmy. Thank You. I now, after months of using
> >> > Vista and
> >> > hours of searching the net, understand the basic reasoning behind all
> >> > my
> >> > suffering. It makes a lot of sense and I will definitely make myself a
> >> > seperate user account for daily use. Having said this I do not believe
> >> > Microsoft is going to get the everage Joe to go through such a steep
> >> > learning
> >> > curve. Also, giving a program temporary administrator rights does not
> >> > work
> >> > with my very first attempt on Explorer. A numeber of files and folders
> >> > have
> >> > either been hidden, deleted or placed elsewhere by Vista when
> >> > re-directing
> >> > the documents and picture folders to another drive (following
> >> > directions by
> >> > MS Help). F.i. folders from my documents directory have ended up inside
> >> > my
> >> > pictures directory. When trying to reorganise with Explorer (with
> >> > administrator rights) I still get pop ups telling me I am not
> >> > authorised to
> >> > perform these tasks. I know MS is trying to give me control, but it
> >> > sure does
> >> > not feel like it.
> >> > My only option seems to be to temporarily switch off UAC to get
> >> > reorganised.
> >> > Any other suggestions? Ernst
> >> >
> >> > "Jimmy Brush" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hello,
> >> >>
> >> >> I've noticed that a lot of the questions in these newsgroups are
> >> >> either
> >> >> directly or indirectly related to UAC (User Account Control). In this
> >> >> post,
> >> >> I will go over what UAC does, how it works, the reasoning behind it,
> >> >> how to
> >> >> use your computer with UAC on, why you shouldn't turn UAC off, and
> >> >> answer
> >> >> some common questions and respond to common complaints about it.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> * What is UAC and what does it do?
> >> >>
> >> >> UAC mode (also known as Admin Approval Mode) is a mode of operation
> >> >> that
> >> >> (primarily) affects the way administrator accounts work.
> >> >>
> >> >> When UAC is turned on (which it is by default), you must explicitly
> >> >> give
> >> >> permission to any program that wants to use "administrator" powers.
> >> >> Any
> >> >> program that tries to use admin powers without your permission will be
> >> >> denied access.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> * How does UAC work
> >> >>
> >> >> When UAC mode is enabled, every program that you run will be given
> >> >> only
> >> >> "standard user" access to the system, even when you are logged in as
> >> >> an
> >> >> administrator. There are only 2 ways that a program can be "elevated"
> >> >> to get
> >> >> full admin access to the system:
> >> >>
> >> >> - If it automatically asks you for permission when it starts up, and
> >> >> you
> >> >> click Continue
> >> >> - If you start the program with permission by right-clicking it, then
> >> >> clicking Run As Administrator
> >> >>
> >> >> A program either starts with STANDARD rights or, if you give
> >> >> permission,
> >> >> ADMINISTRATOR rights, and once the program is running it cannot change
> >> >> from
> >> >> one to the other.
> >> >>
> >> >> If a program that you have already started with admin powers starts
> >> >> another
> >> >> program, that program will automatically be given admin powers without
> >> >> needing your permission. For example, if you start Windows Explorer as
> >> >> administrator, and then double-click on a text file, notepad will open
> >> >> and
> >> >> display the contents of the text file. Since notepad was opened from
> >> >> the
> >> >> admin explorer window, notepad WILL ALSO automatically run WITH admin
> >> >> powers, and will not ask for permission.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> * What's the point of UAC?
> >> >>
> >> >> UAC is designed to put control of your computer back into your hands,
> >> >> instead of at the mercy of the programs running on your computer.
> >> >>
> >> >> When logged in as an administrator in Windows XP, any program that
> >> >> could
> >> >> somehow get itself started could take control of the entire computer
> >> >> without
> >> >> you even knowing about it.
> >> >>
> >> >> With UAC turned on, you must know about and authorize a program in
> >> >> order for
> >> >> it to gain admin access to the system, REGARDLESS of how the program
> >> >> got
> >> >> there or how it is started.
> >> >>
> >> >> This is important to all levels of users - from home users to
> >> >> enterprise
> >> >> administrators. Being alerted when any program tries to use admin
> >> >> powers and
> >> >> being able to unilaterally disallow a program from having such power
> >> >> is a
> >> >> VERY powerful ability. No longer is the security of the system
> >> >> tantamount to
> >> >> "crossing one's fingers and hoping for the best" - YOU now control
> >> >> your
> >> >> system.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> * How do I effectively use my computer with UAC turned on?
> >> >>
> >> >> It's easy. Just keep in mind that programs don't have admin access to
> >> >> your
> >> >> computer unless you give them permission. Microsoft programs that come
> >> >> with
> >> >> Windows Vista that need admin access will always ask for admin
> >> >> permissions
> >> >> when you start them. However, most other programs will not.
> >> >>
> >> >> This will change after Windows Vista is released - all Windows
> >> >> Vista-era
> >> >> programs that need admin power will always ask you for it. Until then,
> >> >> you
> >> >> will need to run programs that need administrative powers that were
> >> >> not
> >> >> designed for Windows Vista "as administrator".
> >> >>
> >> >> Command-line programs do not automatically ask for permission. Not
> >> >> even the
> >> >> built-in ones. You will need to run the command prompt "as
> >> >> administrator" in
> >> >> order to run administrative command-line utilities.
> >> >>
> >> >> Working with files and folders from Windows Explorer can be a real
> >> >> pain when
> >> >> you are not working with your own files. When you are needing to work
> >> >> with
> >> >> system files, files that you didn't create, or files from another
> >> >> operating
> >> >> system, run Windows Explorer "as administrator". In the same vein, ANY
> >> >> program that you run that needs access to system files or files that
> >> >> you
> >> >> didn't create will need to be ran "as administrator".
> >> >>
> >> >> If you are going to be working with the control panel for a long time,
> >> >> running control.exe "as administrator" will make things less painful -
> >> >> you
> >> >> will only be asked for permission once, instead of every time you try
> >> >> to
> >> >> change a system-wide setting.
> >> >>
> >> >> In short:
> >> >>
> >> >> - Run command prompt as admin when you need to run admin utilities
> >> >> - Run setup programs as admin
> >> >> - Run programs not designed for Vista as admin if (and only if) they
> >> >> need
> >> >> admin access
> >> >> - Run Windows Explorer as admin when you need access to files that
> >> >> aren't
> >> >> yours or system files
> >> >> - Run programs that need access to files that aren't yours or system
> >> >> files
> >> >> as admin
> >> >> - Run control.exe as admin when changing many settings in the control
> >> >> panel
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> * UAC is annoying, I want to turn it off
> >> >>
> >> >> Having to go through an extra step (clicking Continue) when opening
> >> >> administrative programs is annoying. And it is also very frustrating
> >> >> to run
> >> >> a program that needs admin power but doesn't automatically ask you for
> >> >> it
> >> >> (you have to right-click these programs and click Run As Administrator
> >> >> for
> >> >> them to run correctly).
> >> >>
> >> >> But, keep in mind that these small inconveniences are insignificant
> >> >> when
> >> >> weighed against the benefit: NO PROGRAM can get full access to your
> >> >> system
Michael D. Ober
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: ANS: "What's the deal with UAC (Windows Needs Your Permission
Posted: 07-19-2008, 01:31 PM
Uninstall the Symantec Internet Security and Hitman Pro and see if your
problem goes away. I actually had to reinstall Vista to clear out my AV
related problems.

Mike.

"Ernst" <Ernst@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:9DE2698B-A8EC-4581-9744-AFBFC9C0E015@microsoft.com...
> Interesting point, Mike. Thank you. I am currently using a trial version
> of
> Symantec's Internet Security version 10.2.0.30 that was pre-installed as
> OEM
> software on my MSI PR 200 laptop. It shows a copyright registration of
> 2006.
> I have looked on the Symantec site, but I could not determine the Vista
> compatibility.
> I also use Hitman Pro which updates itself and it's underlying software on
> a
> regular basis.
> Ernst
>
>
> "Michael D. Ober" wrote:
>
>> Question - is the AV software you're using certified for Vista? The
>> reason
>> I asked is that I had similar problems until I upgraded my AV software
>> from
>> "compatible with" to a version that was "certified".
>>
>> Mike Ober.
>>
>>
>> "Ernst" <Ernst@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:7ABC1D88-874F-41A7-94FC-5A9B4084E284@microsoft.com...
>> > Charlie, Thank you for this extensive respons. Yes I understand what
>> > you
>> > are
>> > saying, but this was already clear to me from the earlier part of the
>> > thread.
>> > I also agree with the principal behind it. I have worked for many years
>> > with
>> > firewalls like ZoneAlarm and Comodo that use a similar principal: Ask
>> > the
>> > user what program is allowed access (the computer or the internet).
>> > However,
>> > these firewalls have never stopped me from doing the work that I need
>> > doing
>> > on my PC. UAC is. If this UAC is applied it should work properly, both
>> > in
>> > protection AND in giving access when given permission by me as
>> > administrator
>> > to do so. As I have described in my previous post, I cannot copy files
>> > within
>> > my user directory (from pictures to documents) even after starting
>> > Explorer
>> > up with administrator rights (right mouse button). Vista Home still
>> > tells
>> > me
>> > I do not have the correct authorisation. Never mind the fact that my
>> > owner
>> > directory is a mess after having stored (diverted) subdirectories on a
>> > different drive using the directions provided by Help. Basically this
>> > is a
>> > different problem, but they might be related. Ever since redirecting
>> > the
>> > pictures and the documents folders to the D-drive, the folder I had
>> > stored
>> > them in on the D-Drive has disappeared from view, including all the
>> > other
>> > files and subdirectories that it contained. I guess they are all still
>> > somewhere on the system, but I cannot see and thus cannot access them
>> > anymore. Other files and folders have switched directory. The example I
>> > gave
>> > was my bookkeeping folder. This folder used to be stored in
>> > 'Documents'.
>> > Since the divertion it is stored in the 'Pictures' directory. Go
>> > figure.
>> > Now, is the only way to reorganise my user directory to go 'root' and
>> > temporarily turn off UAC or is there another way to achieve this? To
>> > put
>> > it
>> > in another way: How can I make UAC do its job all the way? And HOW
>> > would I
>> > be
>> > able to temporarily turn UAC off by the time I loose my patience
>> > completely?
>> > And when I say temporarily, I mean temporarily, because I do agree with
>> > the
>> > basic idea of UAC.
>> > Thank you.
>> > Ernst
>> >
>> > "Charlie Tame" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Ernst, the UAC system is Microsoft's way of putting the horse back in
>> >> front of the cart.
>> >>
>> >> The convention with Unix / Linux has always been to have one admin -
>> >> "Root" and everyone else as users.
>> >>
>> >> Generally it's been the opposite with Windows.
>> >>
>> >> Unfortunately Vista does not "Explain" that as the "Owner" or
>> >> "Installer" of the system you are really only a privileged "User". The
>> >> impressions is that you are "Special" because in the past you always
>> >> were.
>> >>
>> >> With Linux it has been convention for years that running as "Root" is
>> >> a
>> >> bad thing, and the more sophisticated the software you are using
>> >> (Graphical User Interface for example) the more dangerous that would
>> >> be
>> >> because quite simply there's more chance of a bug letting bad things
>> >> happen.
>> >>
>> >> So to do anything with older Linux you would sign out as "Ernst" and
>> >> back in as "Root". Normally neither "Ernst" nor malware could do much
>> >> to
>> >> damage the system.
>> >>
>> >> Later versions allow "Ernst" to use the command "SUDO" (or similar) to
>> >> temporarily gain admin rights (Root) for one specific task or groups
>> >> of
>> >> tasks.
>> >>
>> >> With Windows the convention has been the wrong way around, and this is
>> >> a
>> >> kind of "Legacy" carried on by the users who expect to always have
>> >> total control at all times. Unfortunately this also gives a bad guy at
>> >> your desktop, a bad guy with a remote terminal or bad software the
>> >> same
>> >> control.
>> >>
>> >> So although I think UAC is a clumsy and sometimes annoying way of
>> >> trying
>> >> to persuade people to do it the right way, it is an advisory tool that
>> >> has some merit. It is NOT per-se increased security if you are silly
>> >> and
>> >> let things you are unaware of do what they ask, any more than the
>> >> Linux
>> >> method is "Security" if you become "Root" and let unknown software
>> >> take
>> >> actions it requests.
>> >>
>> >> In some circumstances signing in as "Root" might be acceptable, in
>> >> your
>> >> case it probably was, but with the amount of malware, spyware and
>> >> stuff
>> >> targeting Windows these days most users who were running as full admin
>> >> were in danger.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Ernst wrote:
>> >> > Exellent explanation Jimmy. Thank You. I now, after months of using
>> >> > Vista and
>> >> > hours of searching the net, understand the basic reasoning behind
>> >> > all
>> >> > my
>> >> > suffering. It makes a lot of sense and I will definitely make myself
>> >> > a
>> >> > seperate user account for daily use. Having said this I do not
>> >> > believe
>> >> > Microsoft is going to get the everage Joe to go through such a steep
>> >> > learning
>> >> > curve. Also, giving a program temporary administrator rights does
>> >> > not
>> >> > work
>> >> > with my very first attempt on Explorer. A numeber of files and
>> >> > folders
>> >> > have
>> >> > either been hidden, deleted or placed elsewhere by Vista when
>> >> > re-directing
>> >> > the documents and picture folders to another drive (following
>> >> > directions by
>> >> > MS Help). F.i. folders from my documents directory have ended up
>> >> > inside
>> >> > my
>> >> > pictures directory. When trying to reorganise with Explorer (with
>> >> > administrator rights) I still get pop ups telling me I am not
>> >> > authorised to
>> >> > perform these tasks. I know MS is trying to give me control, but it
>> >> > sure does
>> >> > not feel like it.
>> >> > My only option seems to be to temporarily switch off UAC to get
>> >> > reorganised.
>> >> > Any other suggestions? Ernst
>> >> >
>> >> > "Jimmy Brush" wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Hello,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I've noticed that a lot of the questions in these newsgroups are
>> >> >> either
>> >> >> directly or indirectly related to UAC (User Account Control). In
>> >> >> this
>> >> >> post,
>> >> >> I will go over what UAC does, how it works, the reasoning behind
>> >> >> it,
>> >> >> how to
>> >> >> use your computer with UAC on, why you shouldn't turn UAC off, and
>> >> >> answer
>> >> >> some common questions and respond to common complaints about it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> * What is UAC and what does it do?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> UAC mode (also known as Admin Approval Mode) is a mode of operation
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> (primarily) affects the way administrator accounts work.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> When UAC is turned on (which it is by default), you must explicitly
>> >> >> give
>> >> >> permission to any program that wants to use "administrator" powers.
>> >> >> Any
>> >> >> program that tries to use admin powers without your permission will
>> >> >> be
>> >> >> denied access.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> * How does UAC work
>> >> >>
>> >> >> When UAC mode is enabled, every program that you run will be given
>> >> >> only
>> >> >> "standard user" access to the system, even when you are logged in
>> >> >> as
>> >> >> an
>> >> >> administrator. There are only 2 ways that a program can be
>> >> >> "elevated"
>> >> >> to get
>> >> >> full admin access to the system:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> - If it automatically asks you for permission when it starts up,
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> you
>> >> >> click Continue
>> >> >> - If you start the program with permission by right-clicking it,
>> >> >> then
>> >> >> clicking Run As Administrator
>> >> >>
>> >> >> A program either starts with STANDARD rights or, if you give
>> >> >> permission,
>> >> >> ADMINISTRATOR rights, and once the program is running it cannot
>> >> >> change
>> >> >> from
>> >> >> one to the other.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If a program that you have already started with admin powers starts
>> >> >> another
>> >> >> program, that program will automatically be given admin powers
>> >> >> without
>> >> >> needing your permission. For example, if you start Windows Explorer
>> >> >> as
>> >> >> administrator, and then double-click on a text file, notepad will
>> >> >> open
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> display the contents of the text file. Since notepad was opened
>> >> >> from
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> admin explorer window, notepad WILL ALSO automatically run WITH
>> >> >> admin
>> >> >> powers, and will not ask for permission.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> * What's the point of UAC?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> UAC is designed to put control of your computer back into your
>> >> >> hands,
>> >> >> instead of at the mercy of the programs running on your computer.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> When logged in as an administrator in Windows XP, any program that
>> >> >> could
>> >> >> somehow get itself started could take control of the entire
>> >> >> computer
>> >> >> without
>> >> >> you even knowing about it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> With UAC turned on, you must know about and authorize a program in
>> >> >> order for
>> >> >> it to gain admin access to the system, REGARDLESS of how the
>> >> >> program
>> >> >> got
>> >> >> there or how it is started.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This is important to all levels of users - from home users to
>> >> >> enterprise
>> >> >> administrators. Being alerted when any program tries to use admin
>> >> >> powers and
>> >> >> being able to unilaterally disallow a program from having such
>> >> >> power
>> >> >> is a
>> >> >> VERY powerful ability. No longer is the security of the system
>> >> >> tantamount to
>> >> >> "crossing one's fingers and hoping for the best" - YOU now control
>> >> >> your
>> >> >> system.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> * How do I effectively use my computer with UAC turned on?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It's easy. Just keep in mind that programs don't have admin access
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> your
>> >> >> computer unless you give them permission. Microsoft programs that
>> >> >> come
>> >> >> with
>> >> >> Windows Vista that need admin access will always ask for admin
>> >> >> permissions
>> >> >> when you start them. However, most other programs will not.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This will change after Windows Vista is released - all Windows
>> >> >> Vista-era
>> >> >> programs that need admin power will always ask you for it. Until
>> >> >> then,
>> >> >> you
>> >> >> will need to run programs that need administrative powers that were
>> >> >> not
>> >> >> designed for Windows Vista "as administrator".
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Command-line programs do not automatically ask for permission. Not
>> >> >> even the
>> >> >> built-in ones. You will need to run the command prompt "as
>> >> >> administrator" in
>> >> >> order to run administrative command-line utilities.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Working with files and folders from Windows Explorer can be a real
>> >> >> pain when
>> >> >> you are not working with your own files. When you are needing to
>> >> >> work
>> >> >> with
>> >> >> system files, files that you didn't create, or files from another
>> >> >> operating
>> >> >> system, run Windows Explorer "as administrator". In the same vein,
>> >> >> ANY
>> >> >> program that you run that needs access to system files or files
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> you
>> >> >> didn't create will need to be ran "as administrator".
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If you are going to be working with the control panel for a long
>> >> >> time,
>> >> >> running control.exe "as administrator" will make things less
>> >> >> painful -
>> >> >> you
>> >> >> will only be asked for permission once, instead of every time you
>> >> >> try
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> change a system-wide setting.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In short:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> - Run command prompt as admin when you need to run admin utilities
>> >> >> - Run setup programs as admin
>> >> >> - Run programs not designed for Vista as admin if (and only if)
>> >> >> they
>> >> >> need
>> >> >> admin access
>> >> >> - Run Windows Explorer as admin when you need access to files that
>> >> >> aren't
>> >> >> yours or system files
>> >> >> - Run programs that need access to files that aren't yours or
>> >> >> system
>> >> >> files
>> >> >> as admin
>> >> >> - Run control.exe as admin when changing many settings in the
>> >> >> control
>> >> >> panel
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> * UAC is annoying, I want to turn it off
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Having to go through an extra step (clicking Continue) when opening
>> >> >> administrative programs is annoying. And it is also very
>> >> >> frustrating
>> >> >> to run
>> >> >> a program that needs admin power but doesn't automatically ask you
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> it
>> >> >> (you have to right-click these programs and click Run As
>> >> >> Administrator
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> them to run correctly).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> But, keep in mind that these small inconveniences are insignificant
>> >> >> when
>> >> >> weighed against the benefit: NO PROGRAM can get full access to your
>> >> >> system
>


Ernst
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: ANS: "What's the deal with UAC (Windows Needs Your Permission
Posted: 07-20-2008, 10:29 AM
I'll try Kerry's suggestions and I will, as you suggest, uninstall these
anti-malware programs. I want to recover some files, so I will try these
actions first. As a last resort I may indeed have to reinstal Vista. Thank
you Michael. Ernst

"Michael D. Ober" wrote:
> Uninstall the Symantec Internet Security and Hitman Pro and see if your
> problem goes away. I actually had to reinstall Vista to clear out my AV
> related problems.
>
> Mike.
>
> "Ernst" <Ernst@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:9DE2698B-A8EC-4581-9744-AFBFC9C0E015@microsoft.com...
> > Interesting point, Mike. Thank you. I am currently using a trial version
> > of
> > Symantec's Internet Security version 10.2.0.30 that was pre-installed as
> > OEM
> > software on my MSI PR 200 laptop. It shows a copyright registration of
> > 2006.
> > I have looked on the Symantec site, but I could not determine the Vista
> > compatibility.
> > I also use Hitman Pro which updates itself and it's underlying software on
> > a
> > regular basis.
> > Ernst
> >
> >
> > "Michael D. Ober" wrote:
> >
> >> Question - is the AV software you're using certified for Vista? The
> >> reason
> >> I asked is that I had similar problems until I upgraded my AV software
> >> from
> >> "compatible with" to a version that was "certified".
> >>
> >> Mike Ober.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Ernst" <Ernst@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> news:7ABC1D88-874F-41A7-94FC-5A9B4084E284@microsoft.com...
> >> > Charlie, Thank you for this extensive respons. Yes I understand what
> >> > you
> >> > are
> >> > saying, but this was already clear to me from the earlier part of the
> >> > thread.
> >> > I also agree with the principal behind it. I have worked for many years
> >> > with
> >> > firewalls like ZoneAlarm and Comodo that use a similar principal: Ask
> >> > the
> >> > user what program is allowed access (the computer or the internet).
> >> > However,
> >> > these firewalls have never stopped me from doing the work that I need
> >> > doing
> >> > on my PC. UAC is. If this UAC is applied it should work properly, both
> >> > in
> >> > protection AND in giving access when given permission by me as
> >> > administrator
> >> > to do so. As I have described in my previous post, I cannot copy files
> >> > within
> >> > my user directory (from pictures to documents) even after starting
> >> > Explorer
> >> > up with administrator rights (right mouse button). Vista Home still
> >> > tells
> >> > me
> >> > I do not have the correct authorisation. Never mind the fact that my
> >> > owner
> >> > directory is a mess after having stored (diverted) subdirectories on a
> >> > different drive using the directions provided by Help. Basically this
> >> > is a
> >> > different problem, but they might be related. Ever since redirecting
> >> > the
> >> > pictures and the documents folders to the D-drive, the folder I had
> >> > stored
> >> > them in on the D-Drive has disappeared from view, including all the
> >> > other
> >> > files and subdirectories that it contained. I guess they are all still
> >> > somewhere on the system, but I cannot see and thus cannot access them
> >> > anymore. Other files and folders have switched directory. The example I
> >> > gave
> >> > was my bookkeeping folder. This folder used to be stored in
> >> > 'Documents'.
> >> > Since the divertion it is stored in the 'Pictures' directory. Go
> >> > figure.
> >> > Now, is the only way to reorganise my user directory to go 'root' and
> >> > temporarily turn off UAC or is there another way to achieve this? To
> >> > put
> >> > it
> >> > in another way: How can I make UAC do its job all the way? And HOW
> >> > would I
> >> > be
> >> > able to temporarily turn UAC off by the time I loose my patience
> >> > completely?
> >> > And when I say temporarily, I mean temporarily, because I do agree with
> >> > the
> >> > basic idea of UAC.
> >> > Thank you.
> >> > Ernst
> >> >
> >> > "Charlie Tame" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Ernst, the UAC system is Microsoft's way of putting the horse back in
> >> >> front of the cart.
> >> >>
> >> >> The convention with Unix / Linux has always been to have one admin -
> >> >> "Root" and everyone else as users.
> >> >>
> >> >> Generally it's been the opposite with Windows.
> >> >>
> >> >> Unfortunately Vista does not "Explain" that as the "Owner" or
> >> >> "Installer" of the system you are really only a privileged "User". The
> >> >> impressions is that you are "Special" because in the past you always
> >> >> were.
> >> >>
> >> >> With Linux it has been convention for years that running as "Root" is
> >> >> a
> >> >> bad thing, and the more sophisticated the software you are using
> >> >> (Graphical User Interface for example) the more dangerous that would
> >> >> be
> >> >> because quite simply there's more chance of a bug letting bad things
> >> >> happen.
> >> >>
> >> >> So to do anything with older Linux you would sign out as "Ernst" and
> >> >> back in as "Root". Normally neither "Ernst" nor malware could do much
> >> >> to
> >> >> damage the system.
> >> >>
> >> >> Later versions allow "Ernst" to use the command "SUDO" (or similar) to
> >> >> temporarily gain admin rights (Root) for one specific task or groups
> >> >> of
> >> >> tasks.
> >> >>
> >> >> With Windows the convention has been the wrong way around, and this is
> >> >> a
> >> >> kind of "Legacy" carried on by the users who expect to always have
> >> >> total control at all times. Unfortunately this also gives a bad guy at
> >> >> your desktop, a bad guy with a remote terminal or bad software the
> >> >> same
> >> >> control.
> >> >>
> >> >> So although I think UAC is a clumsy and sometimes annoying way of
> >> >> trying
> >> >> to persuade people to do it the right way, it is an advisory tool that
> >> >> has some merit. It is NOT per-se increased security if you are silly
> >> >> and
> >> >> let things you are unaware of do what they ask, any more than the
> >> >> Linux
> >> >> method is "Security" if you become "Root" and let unknown software
> >> >> take
> >> >> actions it requests.
> >> >>
> >> >> In some circumstances signing in as "Root" might be acceptable, in
> >> >> your
> >> >> case it probably was, but with the amount of malware, spyware and
> >> >> stuff
> >> >> targeting Windows these days most users who were running as full admin
> >> >> were in danger.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Ernst wrote:
> >> >> > Exellent explanation Jimmy. Thank You. I now, after months of using
> >> >> > Vista and
> >> >> > hours of searching the net, understand the basic reasoning behind
> >> >> > all
> >> >> > my
> >> >> > suffering. It makes a lot of sense and I will definitely make myself
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > seperate user account for daily use. Having said this I do not
> >> >> > believe
> >> >> > Microsoft is going to get the everage Joe to go through such a steep
> >> >> > learning
> >> >> > curve. Also, giving a program temporary administrator rights does
> >> >> > not
> >> >> > work
> >> >> > with my very first attempt on Explorer. A numeber of files and
> >> >> > folders
> >> >> > have
> >> >> > either been hidden, deleted or placed elsewhere by Vista when
> >> >> > re-directing
> >> >> > the documents and picture folders to another drive (following
> >> >> > directions by
> >> >> > MS Help). F.i. folders from my documents directory have ended up
> >> >> > inside
> >> >> > my
> >> >> > pictures directory. When trying to reorganise with Explorer (with
> >> >> > administrator rights) I still get pop ups telling me I am not
> >> >> > authorised to
> >> >> > perform these tasks. I know MS is trying to give me control, but it
> >> >> > sure does
> >> >> > not feel like it.
> >> >> > My only option seems to be to temporarily switch off UAC to get
> >> >> > reorganised.
> >> >> > Any other suggestions? Ernst
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Jimmy Brush" wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Hello,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I've noticed that a lot of the questions in these newsgroups are
> >> >> >> either
> >> >> >> directly or indirectly related to UAC (User Account Control). In
> >> >> >> this
> >> >> >> post,
> >> >> >> I will go over what UAC does, how it works, the reasoning behind
> >> >> >> it,
> >> >> >> how to
> >> >> >> use your computer with UAC on, why you shouldn't turn UAC off, and
> >> >> >> answer
> >> >> >> some common questions and respond to common complaints about it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> * What is UAC and what does it do?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> UAC mode (also known as Admin Approval Mode) is a mode of operation
> >> >> >> that
> >> >> >> (primarily) affects the way administrator accounts work.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> When UAC is turned on (which it is by default), you must explicitly
> >> >> >> give
> >> >> >> permission to any program that wants to use "administrator" powers.
> >> >> >> Any
> >> >> >> program that tries to use admin powers without your permission will
> >> >> >> be
> >> >> >> denied access.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> * How does UAC work
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> When UAC mode is enabled, every program that you run will be given
> >> >> >> only
> >> >> >> "standard user" access to the system, even when you are logged in
> >> >> >> as
> >> >> >> an
> >> >> >> administrator. There are only 2 ways that a program can be
> >> >> >> "elevated"
> >> >> >> to get
> >> >> >> full admin access to the system:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> - If it automatically asks you for permission when it starts up,
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >> you
> >> >> >> click Continue
> >> >> >> - If you start the program with permission by right-clicking it,
> >> >> >> then
> >> >> >> clicking Run As Administrator
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> A program either starts with STANDARD rights or, if you give
> >> >> >> permission,
> >> >> >> ADMINISTRATOR rights, and once the program is running it cannot
> >> >> >> change
> >> >> >> from
> >> >> >> one to the other.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> If a program that you have already started with admin powers starts
> >> >> >> another
> >> >> >> program, that program will automatically be given admin powers
> >> >> >> without
> >> >> >> needing your permission. For example, if you start Windows Explorer
> >> >> >> as
> >> >> >> administrator, and then double-click on a text file, notepad will
> >> >> >> open
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >> display the contents of the text file. Since notepad was opened
> >> >> >> from
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> admin explorer window, notepad WILL ALSO automatically run WITH
> >> >> >> admin
> >> >> >> powers, and will not ask for permission.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> * What's the point of UAC?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> UAC is designed to put control of your computer back into your
> >> >> >> hands,
> >> >> >> instead of at the mercy of the programs running on your computer.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> When logged in as an administrator in Windows XP, any program that
> >> >> >> could
> >> >> >> somehow get itself started could take control of the entire
> >> >> >> computer
> >> >> >> without
> >> >> >> you even knowing about it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> With UAC turned on, you must know about and authorize a program in
> >> >> >> order for
> >> >> >> it to gain admin access to the system, REGARDLESS of how the
> >> >> >> program
> >> >> >> got
> >> >> >> there or how it is started.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> This is important to all levels of users - from home users to
> >> >> >> enterprise
> >> >> >> administrators. Being alerted when any program tries to use admin
> >> >> >> powers and
> >> >> >> being able to unilaterally disallow a program from having such
> >> >> >> power
> >> >> >> is a
> >> >> >> VERY powerful ability. No longer is the security of the system
> >> >> >> tantamount to
> >> >> >> "crossing one's fingers and hoping for the best" - YOU now control
> >> >> >> your
> >> >> >> system.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
Lemonheart
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: "What's the deal with UAC (Windows Needs Your Permission scree
Posted: 02-20-2009, 07:18 PM
I can't stand permissions - I'm a stand-alone user and do not need them - I
know how to turn them off but still get denied permission anyway and it
drives me nuts - you Vista people don't understand the difficulty of trying
to figure out "inherited"?? permissions and how to drill down or up to get
the darn permissions granted and talk about "special permissions" - there's
no way I can get in or out of that screen - even when I turn off User Account
-the stupid icon shield comes up with a scary message that puts chills up
and down my spine - come'on folks just tell me how to get rid of them - they
make me want to go to a MAC - I know someone posted a way to get rid of the
from DOS - Please help me if you have any compassion - I don't need the
reasons you Vista people extoll - I'm a DINK and want ease of use and
simplicity in my computer work -

Let me know
--
luckylindy


"Alan Simpson" wrote:
> Well said Jimmy. But just a couple minor additions. Using a computer in a
> limited account for day-to-day stuff has been a security "best practice" for
> many years, and totally ignored outside the corporate environment for just
> as many years. Basically Vista makes that practice security best practice
> automatic and as painless as possible by letting you temporarily elevate
> on-the-fly on an as-needed basis.
>
> Also, for home users, there's a tie-in to parental controls here. From a
> password-protected administrative account you can set parental controls on
> children's standard accounts and monitor their computer and Internet use.
> The kids can't get to any of that from their standard accounts (without an
> administrative password). So they can't tamper with any of that.
>
>
> "Jimmy Brush" <JimmyBrush@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:3DD0CEBA-1550-486F-9361-9A0F826897A0@microsoft.com...
> > Hello,
> >
> > I've noticed that a lot of the questions in these newsgroups are either
> > directly or indirectly related to UAC (User Account Control). In this
> > post, I will go over what UAC does, how it works, the reasoning behind it,
> > how to use your computer with UAC on, why you shouldn't turn UAC off, and
> > answer some common questions and respond to common complaints about it.
> >
> >
> > * What is UAC and what does it do?
> >
> > UAC mode (also known as Admin Approval Mode) is a mode of operation that
> > (primarily) affects the way administrator accounts work.
> >
> > When UAC is turned on (which it is by default), you must explicitly give
> > permission to any program that wants to use "administrator" powers. Any
> > program that tries to use admin powers without your permission will be
> > denied access.
> >
> >
> > * How does UAC work
> >
> > When UAC mode is enabled, every program that you run will be given only
> > "standard user" access to the system, even when you are logged in as an
> > administrator. There are only 2 ways that a program can be "elevated" to
> > get full admin access to the system:
> >
> > - If it automatically asks you for permission when it starts up, and you
> > click Continue
> > - If you start the program with permission by right-clicking it, then
> > clicking Run As Administrator
> >
> > A program either starts with STANDARD rights or, if you give permission,
> > ADMINISTRATOR rights, and once the program is running it cannot change
> > from one to the other.
> >
> > If a program that you have already started with admin powers starts
> > another program, that program will automatically be given admin powers
> > without needing your permission. For example, if you start Windows
> > Explorer as administrator, and then double-click on a text file, notepad
> > will open and display the contents of the text file. Since notepad was
> > opened from the admin explorer window, notepad WILL ALSO automatically run
> > WITH admin powers, and will not ask for permission.
> >
> >
> > * What's the point of UAC?
> >
> > UAC is designed to put control of your computer back into your hands,
> > instead of at the mercy of the programs running on your computer.
> >
> > When logged in as an administrator in Windows XP, any program that could
> > somehow get itself started could take control of the entire computer
> > without you even knowing about it.
> >
> > With UAC turned on, you must know about and authorize a program in order
> > for it to gain admin access to the system, REGARDLESS of how the program
> > got there or how it is started.
> >
> > This is important to all levels of users - from home users to enterprise
> > administrators. Being alerted when any program tries to use admin powers
> > and being able to unilaterally disallow a program from having such power
> > is a VERY powerful ability. No longer is the security of the system
> > tantamount to "crossing one's fingers and hoping for the best" - YOU now
> > control your system.
> >
> >
> > * How do I effectively use my computer with UAC turned on?
> >
> > It's easy. Just keep in mind that programs don't have admin access to your
> > computer unless you give them permission. Microsoft programs that come
> > with Windows Vista that need admin access will always ask for admin
> > permissions when you start them. However, most other programs will not.
> >
> > This will change after Windows Vista is released - all Windows Vista-era
> > programs that need admin power will always ask you for it. Until then, you
> > will need to run programs that need administrative powers that were not
> > designed for Windows Vista "as administrator".
> >
> > Command-line programs do not automatically ask for permission. Not even
> > the built-in ones. You will need to run the command prompt "as
> > administrator" in order to run administrative command-line utilities.
> >
> > Working with files and folders from Windows Explorer can be a real pain
> > when you are not working with your own files. When you are needing to work
> > with system files, files that you didn't create, or files from another
> > operating system, run Windows Explorer "as administrator". In the same
> > vein, ANY program that you run that needs access to system files or files
> > that you didn't create will need to be ran "as administrator".
> >
> > If you are going to be working with the control panel for a long time,
> > running control.exe "as administrator" will make things less painful - you
> > will only be asked for permission once, instead of every time you try to
> > change a system-wide setting.
> >
> > In short:
> >
> > - Run command prompt as admin when you need to run admin utilities
> > - Run setup programs as admin
> > - Run programs not designed for Vista as admin if (and only if) they need
> > admin access
> > - Run Windows Explorer as admin when you need access to files that aren't
> > yours or system files
> > - Run programs that need access to files that aren't yours or system files
> > as admin
> > - Run control.exe as admin when changing many settings in the control
> > panel
> >
> >
> > * UAC is annoying, I want to turn it off
> >
> > Having to go through an extra step (clicking Continue) when opening
> > administrative programs is annoying. And it is also very frustrating to
> > run a program that needs admin power but doesn't automatically ask you for
> > it (you have to right-click these programs and click Run As Administrator
> > for them to run correctly).
> >
> > But, keep in mind that these small inconveniences are insignificant when
> > weighed against the benefit: NO PROGRAM can get full access to your system
> > without you being informed. The first time the permission dialog pops up
> > and it is from some program that you know nothing about or that you do not
> > want to have access to your system, you will be very glad that the Cancel
> > button was available to you.
> >
> >
> > * Answers to common questions and responses to common criticism
> >
> > Q: I have anti-virus, a firewall, a spyware-detector, or something
> > similar. Why do I need UAC?
> >
> > A: Detectors can only see known threats. And of all the known threats in
> > existence, they only detect the most common of those threats. With UAC
> > turned on, *you* control what programs have access to your computer - you
> > can stop ALL threats. Detectors are nice, but they're not enough. How many
> > people do you know that have detectors of all kinds and yet are still
> > infested with programs that they don't want on their computer? Everyone
> > that I have ever helped falls into this category.
> >
> >
> > Q: Does UAC replace anti-virus, a firewall, a spyware-detector, or similar
> > programs?
> >
> > A: No. Microsoft recommends that you use a virus scanner and/or other
> > types of security software. These types of programs compliment UAC: They
> > will get rid of known threats for you. UAC will allow you to stop unknown
> > threats, as well as prevent any program that you do not trust from gaining
> > access to your computer.
> >
> >
> > Q: I am a system administrator - I have no use for UAC.
> >
> > A: Really? You don't NEED to know when a program on your computer runs
> > with admin powers? You are a system administrator and you really could
> > care less when a program runs that has full control of your system, and
> > possibly your entire domain? You're joking, right?
> >
> >
> > Q: UAC keeps me from accessing files and folders
> >
> > A: No, it doesn't - UAC protects you from programs that would try to
> > delete or modify system files and folders without your knowledge. If you
> > want a program to have full access to the files on your computer, you will
> > need to run it as admin. Or as an alternative, if possible, put the files
> > it needs access to in a place that all programs have access to - such as
> > your documents folder, or any folder under your user folder.
> >
> >
> > Q: UAC stops programs from working correctly
> >
> > A: If a program needs admin power and it doesn't ask you for permission
> > when it starts, you have to give it admin powers by right-clicking it and
> > clicking Run As Administrator. Programs should work like they did in XP
> > when you use Run As Administrator. If they don't, then this is a bug.
> >
> >
> > Q: UAC keeps me from doing things that I could do in XP
> >
> > A: This is not the case. Just remember that programs that do not ask for
> > permission when they start do not get admin access to your computer. If
> > you are using a tool that needs admin access, right-click it and click Run
> > As Administrator. It should work exactly as it did in XP. If it does not,
> > then this is a bug.
> >
> >
> > Q: UAC is Microsoft's way of controlling my computer and preventing me
> > from using it!
> >
> > A: This is 100% UNTRUE. UAC puts control of your computer IN YOUR HANDS by
> > allowing you to prevent unwanted programs from accessing your computer.
> > *Everything* that you can do with UAC turned off, you can do with it
> > turned on. If this is not the case, then that is a bug.
> >
> >
> > Q: I don't need Windows to hold my freaking hand! I *know* what I've got
> > on my computer, and I *know* when programs run! I am logged on as an
> > ADMINISTRATOR for a dang reason!
> >
> > A: I accept the way that you think, and can see the logic, but I don't
> > agree with this idea. UAC is putting POWER in your hands by letting you
> > CONTROL what runs on your system. But you want to give up this control and
> > allow all programs to run willy-nilly. Look, if you want to do this go
> > right ahead, you can turn UAC off and things will return to how they
> > worked in XP. But, don't be surprised when either 1) You run something by
> > mistake that messes up your computer and/or domain, or 2) A program
> > somehow gets on your computer that you know nothing about that takes over
> > your computer and/or domain, and UAC would have allowed you to have
> > stopped it.
> >
> >
> > - JB
> >
> > Vista Support FAQ
> > http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
>
semoi
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: "What's the deal with UAC (Windows Needs Your Permission scree
Posted: 02-20-2009, 07:37 PM
If you agree to purchase Vista SP3, aka Windows 7, your issues with UAC will
be resolved, along with some, not all, of the idiotic performance draining
issues in Vista.
Alas, in typical Microsoft fashion, your peripherals may not work ever again
due to driver changes for which Microsoft will blame the peripheral vendor
or you rather than itself, just like the UAC tries to shift the blame to you
for installing an errant program rather than actually screening the program
to tell you if it is dangerous.

 
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