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Audio problem solution

Posted: 12-30-2003, 12:17 AM
Phil Kopp
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
At least a good workaround.

There have been a couple of threads recently about audio problems with MM2.
One is called "Audio Bleeps at Transitions", and the other is "Solved? Audio
@ Trans Problem". If you're just tuning in, you should read these so you'll
know what the issues are and how we got here.

For the most part the audio issues involve video clips that have transitions
applied such as a fade. These clips will play perfectly in MM2, but when
rendered to a DV-AVI file, will occasionally have clicks and pops and other
audio deterioration. When rendered to a .wmv file there seem to be no
problems. Of course, if a DVD or Video CD is your ultimate destination, then
you need the DV-AVI file to be as good as possible.

Anthony made the first part of the breakthrough and I want to give him a big
share of the credit for getting to a solution to this problem. He reasoned
correctly that if you render just the video portion of the clip, then the
transitions 'disappear' as far as MM2 is concerned. Your new edited clip now
appears to MM2 as if it came out of your camcorder. So Anthony's solution
was to separately render the video and audio and then combine the two into
the final clip. It worked.

At least it worked better. I still had the occasional 'click' or 'pop', but
it was a lot better than the original. What wasn't so good was the audio
quality. Since I have both the original audio file and the result from MM2
right in front of me, it's easy to compare. There was a definite
deterioration so more was needed.

While I was in the process of editing a project, cutting and pasting bits of
video and audio here and there, it came to me. Rather than 'render' the
audio portion to a wma file, just store it temporarily in the clipboard
until you are ready for it. It works and it works well.

Here are the steps - simplified.

Build your project. Add all the video clips, extra audio/music tracks,
transitions, everything. Save your work regularly, of course. When you get
it the way you want, select the entire 'Audio/Music' track and 'Cut' it into
the clipboard. You are left with a video only project. Save that as
'project_video' and 'Save a Movie File...' in DV-AVI format. Give this movie
a name, like 'project_video', to differentiate it from your 'project' file
with all the parts in the timeline.

When that finishes, start a new project and import the just completed
'project_video' clip. Drag it onto the timeline and then paste the audio
track (still sitting in your clipboard) into the Audio/Music track. Save
this as 'project_video_audio'. Now, once again 'Save a Movie File...' to
DV-AVI format and you will have your clip with all your transitions, the
audio with no clicks or pops or other garbage and it will sound just like it
did to begin with.

This is basically Anthony's solution except it 'stores' the audio/music
track in the clipboard rather than as a wma file avoiding the deterioration.

This works; for me at least! I edited about 20 minutes of video, lots of
transitions and several separate audio tracks into one final DV-AVI file. I
then used that file to build a DVD video and it plays and sounds just the
way I want it to.

One thing is apparent in this process. You end up with a lot of DV-AVI files
and they take a lot of space. To help keep my project organized, I opened
Notepad and kept notes of the project filenames, DV-AVI filenames and
combined filenames. My 21 minute video was built in 6 different parts to
make it more manageable, so I had a lot of DV-AVI and MSWMM files. I cannot
overstate how important it is to have lots of disk space and to keep it
defragged. I have four Maxtor 160G ATA133 disks paired into two RAID0
configurations. Each pair is a different drive and I read from one and write
to another. It is amazing how much space this 20 minute project has used -
well over 50Gs with source files, stills, audio clips, and DVD menu
backgrounds and all that. Save your allowance because you will need another
disk soon!

There are a couple of caveats. MM2 is not a 'precision' video editor. You
can't move along 'frame by frame' looking for a specific point in time. Same
with the audio, you can see generally where the loud and quiet spots are,
but for precise editing you need other tools. I mention this because I
noticed one oddity in this process. When the first 'video only' clip is made
into a DV-AVI file it doesn't end up exactly the same length as you started.
Seems to get a bit shorter. This means I had to adjust the audio clips I
pasted in from the clipboard a little bit. This was no issue for me since I
wasn't trying to edit these clips all that accurately. One or two seconds
either way at the beginning and ending of each section was all I needed. It
is something to be aware of if you're trying to be 'precise'.

One other thing I noticed was when playing back the combined DV-AVI files
(both audio and video in the file), my Media Player would 'skip' or 'glitch'
every now and then. At first I thought the problem was still with us, but
when I paused the player and moved the cursor back a few seconds and
replayed that portion of the clip, it played without any problem. I think
the issue is this: DV-AVI files are huge and the data rate is huge and this
puts a bit of stress on all but the fastest PCs. To test this, I rebooted,
turned off everything I didn't need running and played the clip again. In a
21 minute DV-AVI file (4.5G!) there was one glitch. When backed up a bit and
replayed, it was perfect. And the final result on the DVD is also perfect.
Whew!

Thanks again to Anthony for getting us on the right track, to PapaJohn, who
I assume might add this bit of lore to his MM2 site, and all the other
posters who have contributed. This internet thingy works pretty well
sometimes.

Happy Holidays!

--
Phil


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Responses to "Audio problem solution"

PapaJohn
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Audio problem solution
Posted: 12-30-2003, 07:12 AM
I just updated the page with the info that Gareth provided. Your new post is
next.

Thanks for making my website seem short and to the point ... and for
something interesting to read and digest.
--
PapaJohn
www.papajohn.org


"Phil Kopp" <pckopp@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:zu3Ib.684250$HS4.4848968@attbi_s01...
> At least a good workaround.
>
> There have been a couple of threads recently about audio problems with
MM2.
> One is called "Audio Bleeps at Transitions", and the other is "Solved?
Audio
> @ Trans Problem". If you're just tuning in, you should read these so
you'll
> know what the issues are and how we got here.
>
> For the most part the audio issues involve video clips that have
transitions
> applied such as a fade. These clips will play perfectly in MM2, but when
> rendered to a DV-AVI file, will occasionally have clicks and pops and
other
> audio deterioration. When rendered to a .wmv file there seem to be no
> problems. Of course, if a DVD or Video CD is your ultimate destination,
then
> you need the DV-AVI file to be as good as possible.
>
> Anthony made the first part of the breakthrough and I want to give him a
big
> share of the credit for getting to a solution to this problem. He reasoned
> correctly that if you render just the video portion of the clip, then the
> transitions 'disappear' as far as MM2 is concerned. Your new edited clip
now
> appears to MM2 as if it came out of your camcorder. So Anthony's solution
> was to separately render the video and audio and then combine the two into
> the final clip. It worked.
>
> At least it worked better. I still had the occasional 'click' or 'pop',
but
> it was a lot better than the original. What wasn't so good was the audio
> quality. Since I have both the original audio file and the result from MM2
> right in front of me, it's easy to compare. There was a definite
> deterioration so more was needed.
>
> While I was in the process of editing a project, cutting and pasting bits
of
> video and audio here and there, it came to me. Rather than 'render' the
> audio portion to a wma file, just store it temporarily in the clipboard
> until you are ready for it. It works and it works well.
>
> Here are the steps - simplified.
>
> Build your project. Add all the video clips, extra audio/music tracks,
> transitions, everything. Save your work regularly, of course. When you get
> it the way you want, select the entire 'Audio/Music' track and 'Cut' it
into
> the clipboard. You are left with a video only project. Save that as
> 'project_video' and 'Save a Movie File...' in DV-AVI format. Give this
movie
> a name, like 'project_video', to differentiate it from your 'project' file
> with all the parts in the timeline.
>
> When that finishes, start a new project and import the just completed
> 'project_video' clip. Drag it onto the timeline and then paste the audio
> track (still sitting in your clipboard) into the Audio/Music track. Save
> this as 'project_video_audio'. Now, once again 'Save a Movie File...' to
> DV-AVI format and you will have your clip with all your transitions, the
> audio with no clicks or pops or other garbage and it will sound just like
it
> did to begin with.
>
> This is basically Anthony's solution except it 'stores' the audio/music
> track in the clipboard rather than as a wma file avoiding the
deterioration.
>
> This works; for me at least! I edited about 20 minutes of video, lots of
> transitions and several separate audio tracks into one final DV-AVI file.
I
> then used that file to build a DVD video and it plays and sounds just the
> way I want it to.
>
> One thing is apparent in this process. You end up with a lot of DV-AVI
files
> and they take a lot of space. To help keep my project organized, I opened
> Notepad and kept notes of the project filenames, DV-AVI filenames and
> combined filenames. My 21 minute video was built in 6 different parts to
> make it more manageable, so I had a lot of DV-AVI and MSWMM files. I
cannot
> overstate how important it is to have lots of disk space and to keep it
> defragged. I have four Maxtor 160G ATA133 disks paired into two RAID0
> configurations. Each pair is a different drive and I read from one and
write
> to another. It is amazing how much space this 20 minute project has used -
> well over 50Gs with source files, stills, audio clips, and DVD menu
> backgrounds and all that. Save your allowance because you will need
another
> disk soon!
>
> There are a couple of caveats. MM2 is not a 'precision' video editor. You
> can't move along 'frame by frame' looking for a specific point in time.
Same
> with the audio, you can see generally where the loud and quiet spots are,
> but for precise editing you need other tools. I mention this because I
> noticed one oddity in this process. When the first 'video only' clip is
made
> into a DV-AVI file it doesn't end up exactly the same length as you
started.
> Seems to get a bit shorter. This means I had to adjust the audio clips I
> pasted in from the clipboard a little bit. This was no issue for me since
I
> wasn't trying to edit these clips all that accurately. One or two seconds
> either way at the beginning and ending of each section was all I needed.
It
> is something to be aware of if you're trying to be 'precise'.
>
> One other thing I noticed was when playing back the combined DV-AVI files
> (both audio and video in the file), my Media Player would 'skip' or
'glitch'
> every now and then. At first I thought the problem was still with us, but
> when I paused the player and moved the cursor back a few seconds and
> replayed that portion of the clip, it played without any problem. I think
> the issue is this: DV-AVI files are huge and the data rate is huge and
this
> puts a bit of stress on all but the fastest PCs. To test this, I rebooted,
> turned off everything I didn't need running and played the clip again. In
a
> 21 minute DV-AVI file (4.5G!) there was one glitch. When backed up a bit
and
> replayed, it was perfect. And the final result on the DVD is also perfect.
> Whew!
>
> Thanks again to Anthony for getting us on the right track, to PapaJohn,
who
> I assume might add this bit of lore to his MM2 site, and all the other
> posters who have contributed. This internet thingy works pretty well
> sometimes.
>
> Happy Holidays!
>
> --
> Phil
>
>

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Anthony
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Audio problem solution
Posted: 12-30-2003, 10:06 AM
Phil,

Good to hear you've "resolved" your audio problem to your
satisfaction.
>Rather than 'render' the
>audio portion to a wma file, just store it temporarily in
the clipboard
>until you are ready for it. It works and it works well.
For those that this will work for it could mean three less
steps. In that there is no need to copy the project,
render the audio or import it. That should also get rid of
two extra files and speed things up toward final.

I could not get this to work for Me. It actually makes
previewing worse. So I bypassed it as a suggestion prior.
Go figure.
:-)

"Lucky" for Me, the render time for the audio file is less.
>One thing is apparent in this process. You end up with a
lot of DV-AVI files
>and they take a lot of space.
You might be able to streamline the file process if you
plan for it and get comfortable with the process. I know
I was able to cut out some "safe" extra files saves when I
trusted a direct route would work or I had any potential
problems covered otherwise.
For instance, I do not save the last project file
rendered {The "new project" with the prerenders dropped
into it], nor the DV AVI to tape, which is rendered to
tape and not the harddrive. I close the project but don't
save the changes to the "new project". I can always make
another one from the two render files at ny time.....Well
until I'm finally done and delete the project entirely.

I must not be understanding something, You'll have what
ever number of source files there are for a particular
project but you only need two extra for the prerender to
compile, if you do the Cut-audio method. That eliminates
the project audio render files altogether.

I'm not following why there are six large files for a
finished project.
> I cannot
>overstate how important it is to have lots of disk space
>I have four Maxtor 160G ATA133 disks paired into two RAID0
>configurations.
Kind of shoots the Microsoft minimum systems claims in the
head, don't it?
I still want to know what Bill Gates used to make his
Flawless Professional Videos he sent to his family this
Holiday.
> Save your allowance because you will need another
>disk soon!
I think I'd be trying another, stable, editor instead.
> I noticed one oddity in this process. When the
first 'video only' clip is made
>into a DV-AVI file it doesn't end up exactly the same
length as you started.

Ok. It isn't my imagination.
Yes, I thought I saw the same thing under the original
suggestion. But with all the details I'd forgotten how
exact I had kept every thing so thought I'd done
something.
This could be problematic for the exacting project with
continuous sync. audio.
> I think
>the issue is this: DV-AVI files are huge and the data
rate is huge and this
>puts a bit of stress on all but the fastest PCs.
So how did Microsoft get their's to work on a minimum
system?
> In a
>21 minute DV-AVI file (4.5G!) there was one glitch. When
backed up a bit and
>replayed, it was perfect.
I just noticed the same thing though a bit different. Had
a 3 minute project and rendered it to tape twice. On each
tape there occurred one dropout but in different
locations. Restarted MM2, turned off the wireless
interrogator...I just found out this runs in the
background if not disabled, even when there isn't anything
wireless around.... And I had a flawless copy to tape
using the original render suggestion.
So there is still much to say about having the system
clean before rendering.

Though about the amount of space this takes, I have 4
projects totalling about 40 minutes and I'm looking at
about 30 gigs of space taken up.
> This internet thingy works pretty well
>sometimes.
Yes. I concur...Though I wish it were upon more creative
things than working on the idosyncrasies of the computers
which enable it.

Anthony.


P.S. Just remembered something else with respect to the
click, pop thingy...Which if heard you'll, coincidently,
see a clip change occurring in the Timeline.... I read a
comment on a different forum regarding the Axo Composer
Compositing program. One of the answers given as to why
one would want to purchase the new program over just using
the otherwise competent original free version was that the
new version eliminated "clicks and pops at transitions" of
the original.

Thought you'd find that interesting..... appears Microsoft
has some programming to do.


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Phil Kopp
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Audio problem solution
Posted: 12-30-2003, 02:53 PM
Sorry it wasn't the 'Promised Land' for you, Anthony. So it goes...

A couple of follow-up comments:

In my 20 minute video project, I chose to divide it into 6 different
sections. When I first started working on it, I was using a much slower PC
and it was very tedious trying to manage the project all in one piece. The
subject matter naturally divided itself into different sections, so I did
that. Ease of use was the only reason - unrelated to any audio problems. I
have lots of disk space, so I was being extra careful in saving my work
every step of the way, in case I zigged where I should have zagged. In a
normal one-part project, there aren't so many files to manage.

It is possible to implement this workaround without using the clipboard.
Just render the video portion, re-import it and then add the audio track
from your Collections. Of course, you usually want the audio track in the
project so you can preview and edit accordingly. The issue for me is that
once the video is rendered, there are no 'breaks' or other 'landmarks' to
let you know where exactly to place the audio track. You can make careful
notes on the timing and of course, you can step through it in the preview
window to find just the spot you want. Another problem was that my shortened
DV-AVI file didn't end when the original audio did, so I had more editing to
do. It would be nice to get an explanation of the time difference issue.

Thanks again for your suggestions.
--
Phil


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PapaJohn
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Audio problem solution
Posted: 12-30-2003, 05:08 PM
Hi Phil,

Just a quick note about using the 'clipboard'. It uses your system memory to
store the info in, and MM2 is memory intensive when rendering a movie. If
the movie is small enough to fit both the 'clipboard' info and the rendering
info at the same time, it would work... if not that small, then you wouldn't
want to tie up a chunk of memory before starting the render.

--
PapaJohn
www.papajohn.org


"Phil Kopp" <pckopp@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:jjgIb.15351$xX.37991@attbi_s02...
> Sorry it wasn't the 'Promised Land' for you, Anthony. So it goes...
>
> A couple of follow-up comments:
>
> In my 20 minute video project, I chose to divide it into 6 different
> sections. When I first started working on it, I was using a much slower PC
> and it was very tedious trying to manage the project all in one piece. The
> subject matter naturally divided itself into different sections, so I did
> that. Ease of use was the only reason - unrelated to any audio problems. I
> have lots of disk space, so I was being extra careful in saving my work
> every step of the way, in case I zigged where I should have zagged. In a
> normal one-part project, there aren't so many files to manage.
>
> It is possible to implement this workaround without using the clipboard.
> Just render the video portion, re-import it and then add the audio track
> from your Collections. Of course, you usually want the audio track in the
> project so you can preview and edit accordingly. The issue for me is that
> once the video is rendered, there are no 'breaks' or other 'landmarks' to
> let you know where exactly to place the audio track. You can make careful
> notes on the timing and of course, you can step through it in the preview
> window to find just the spot you want. Another problem was that my
shortened
> DV-AVI file didn't end when the original audio did, so I had more editing
to
> do. It would be nice to get an explanation of the time difference issue.
>
> Thanks again for your suggestions.
> --
> Phil
>
>

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Anthony
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Audio problem solution
Posted: 12-30-2003, 07:40 PM
Phil,
>Sorry it wasn't the 'Promised Land' for you, Anthony. So
it goes...

Seems that's my not my destiny.
:-)
>In my 20 minute video project, I chose to divide it into
6 different
>sections.
so I was being extra careful in saving my work
>every step of the way, in case I zigged where I should
have zagged.


Yeah, I know that feeling. Ok, I understand now.
>It is possible to implement this workaround without using
the clipboard.
>Just render the video portion, re-import it and then add
the audio track
>from your Collections.
Yep. That's what I was talking about generally. Once you
know the requirements some of the steps getting there can
be eliminated....Except for those of us Destiny
Challenged, of course.
:-)
> The issue for me is that
>once the video is rendered, there are no 'breaks' or
other 'landmarks' to
>let you know where exactly to place the audio track.
This is why I suggested originally to save/render the
audio track first. I had that problem but resolved it by
that method....Well, except for any "time compression" in
the first render, it will sync.

And as to that I can only suggest it's one of those things
we have to know is going to happen and plan, best we can,
for it. Since most of my projects aren't necessarily sync
dependent, {i.e., Surf noise now is surf noise a second
later.}, I can do a bit of editting to line things back up
relatively well, adjusting those things that need the
syncronization. I use, as you are, a prominent video cue
to slice that part of nondescript audio before the first
out of sync, and move the track. So far that has pretty
much fixed the rest....Though I have a suspicion the "time
compression" is nonlinear.
Not knowing yet, whether it is a linear or nonlinear time
compression, makes it a bit more difficult to anticipate
without "landmarks", for sure.

Since we know this problem exists it might be something to
build into the video a way that we can drop in specific
relevent sounds a couple of times along the project to act
as those landmarks later... I suspect this is your
suggestion too.
For instance, using the spinning newspaper title animation
I wanted to accent it's stop by the camera click sound. It
turned out that to look right the timing has to be right.
I was able to use that video frame time to cue the sound
to the animation for the _clean final render to sync them
up again.
> Another problem was that my shortened
>DV-AVI file didn't end when the original audio did, so I
had more editing to
>do.
Yes, that's how I first noticed it also, and if it wsn't
an indication that we aren't insync earlier on the end
wouldn't bother me as much, I seem to put music and
credits at the end universally, so adding a little longer
clip of music would pose a problem...though it's nice not
to have to fudge....Do the pros do it that way?
>It would be nice to get an explanation of the time
difference issue.

Yes, it would. Better to have it go away.
Consider this, if it is a faulty PCM Converter and that
converter is the bit rate calculater, we may be peering a
bit into the problem. As I suggested to someone else, if
the converter is faulty it can't accurately count the bits
to keep time accurately or anticipate "the future". It can
only give a very rough estimate of how long it takes
relevent only to the current portion being converted....in
error. This problem seems to be indicated in the "Time
Remaining" portion of the render window...It doesn't
really work with respect to the entire project being
rendered...as if there is no parity checking against the
known time interval. And since it doesn't keep track of
the over all project time requirement is performs a rough
estimate in its output. The "time compression" may be a
rough indicator of the amount of error in the converter.
>Thanks again for your suggestions.
And you, I appreciate your contributions.

If nothing else we are doing science.
Too bad its reproducing the cause of error.
:-)

Anthony.

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Anthony
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Audio problem solution
Posted: 12-30-2003, 07:54 PM
PapaJohn,
>you wouldn't
>want to tie up a chunk of memory before starting the
render.

Good point. Since I don't yet know what's really causing
my problem with the Cut Method, what's the best way to
clear the clipboard to ensure it is empty?

But it can't be rendering a full movie in RAM, can it?.

And how much RAM is MM2 using that a project file loads up
the RAM?
I've got 512Mb to work with that's suppose to be
enough...at least by Microsoft claims.

What is the truth to this?
We have reproduceable basic program insufficiencies.
Why aren't there more answers from Microsoft?

Anthony.
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PapaJohn \(MVP\)
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Audio problem solution
Posted: 12-30-2003, 08:07 PM
Anthony,

I usually clear my clipboard by coping something small... maybe just one
letter or word of text... the clipboad can only hold one thing at a time so
you know it's pretty empty with just a few text characters. There's better
ways I'm sure but this one works fine for me.

RAM usage is dynamic and depends totally on the specific project.

PapaJohn

"Anthony" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:030801c3cf0e$c02c3400$a101280a@phx.gbl...
> PapaJohn,
>
> >you wouldn't
> >want to tie up a chunk of memory before starting the
> render.
>
> Good point. Since I don't yet know what's really causing
> my problem with the Cut Method, what's the best way to
> clear the clipboard to ensure it is empty?
>
> But it can't be rendering a full movie in RAM, can it?.
>
> And how much RAM is MM2 using that a project file loads up
> the RAM?
> I've got 512Mb to work with that's suppose to be
> enough...at least by Microsoft claims.
>
> What is the truth to this?
> We have reproduceable basic program insufficiencies.
> Why aren't there more answers from Microsoft?
>
> Anthony.

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Digger
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Audio problem solution
Posted: 12-30-2003, 09:24 PM
Clicks, Pops, etc., recording/ editing/ rendering windows audio media.

1. Use of 3rd party emulated DirectX drivers may cause stuttered playback;
OEM/ product specific.

2. There is a problem in the Windows kernel mixer, which causes short
glitches or clicks at the start of playback or at the beginning of a
recording. DirectX 9+ helps, but does not fully eliminate this condition.
Thus, one must thoroughly check for noise at each new rendering; a real
pain-in-the ????

3. WAV files may legally contain extra non-audio information (markers,
summary data, etc.); usually inserted after the header and before the
actual audio sample data begins. This extra --non-audio-- info may
contribute to unwanted noise, erroneous timellines (out-of-sync), and a host
of other problems. Unless one is intimately familiar with the history of a
source wav, it is simply a good idea to insure source files are well washed
(cleaned) before use; sorta like washing hands before preparing dinner. I
use the following for expediency, but many of todays semipro audio
converters and better editing suites will do as well or better...

StripWave - http://www.lightlink.com/tjweber/StripWav/StripWav.html

All good arguments for building audio and video streams independently;
multiplexed (mixed) only at production times. Also good arguments for use
of tools that support scripted production; Adobe Premier, Avid, Final Cut,
etc, etc... Hmmm...WMM? Oooops!! My, how quickly I digress.<g>

--
Digger

In news:075b01c3cebc$9cf56fd0$a601280a@phx.gbl,
Anthony <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> typed:
> Phil,
>
> Good to hear you've "resolved" your audio problem to your
> satisfaction.
>
>> Rather than 'render' the
>> audio portion to a wma file, just store it temporarily in the
>> clipboard until you are ready for it. It works and it works well.
>
> For those that this will work for it could mean three less
> steps. In that there is no need to copy the project,
> render the audio or import it. That should also get rid of
> two extra files and speed things up toward final.
>
> I could not get this to work for Me. It actually makes
> previewing worse. So I bypassed it as a suggestion prior.
> Go figure.
> :-)
>
> "Lucky" for Me, the render time for the audio file is less.
>
>> One thing is apparent in this process. You end up with a lot of
>> DV-AVI files and they take a lot of space.
>
> You might be able to streamline the file process if you
> plan for it and get comfortable with the process. I know
> I was able to cut out some "safe" extra files saves when I
> trusted a direct route would work or I had any potential
> problems covered otherwise.
> For instance, I do not save the last project file
> rendered {The "new project" with the prerenders dropped
> into it], nor the DV AVI to tape, which is rendered to
> tape and not the harddrive. I close the project but don't
> save the changes to the "new project". I can always make
> another one from the two render files at ny time.....Well
> until I'm finally done and delete the project entirely.
>
> I must not be understanding something, You'll have what
> ever number of source files there are for a particular
> project but you only need two extra for the prerender to
> compile, if you do the Cut-audio method. That eliminates
> the project audio render files altogether.
>
> I'm not following why there are six large files for a
> finished project.
>
>> I cannot
>> overstate how important it is to have lots of disk space
>> I have four Maxtor 160G ATA133 disks paired into two RAID0
>> configurations.
>
> Kind of shoots the Microsoft minimum systems claims in the
> head, don't it?
> I still want to know what Bill Gates used to make his
> Flawless Professional Videos he sent to his family this
> Holiday.
>
>> Save your allowance because you will need another
>> disk soon!
>
> I think I'd be trying another, stable, editor instead.
>
>> I noticed one oddity in this process. When the
> first 'video only' clip is made
>> into a DV-AVI file it doesn't end up exactly the same length as you
>> started.
>
> Ok. It isn't my imagination.
> Yes, I thought I saw the same thing under the original
> suggestion. But with all the details I'd forgotten how
> exact I had kept every thing so thought I'd done
> something.
> This could be problematic for the exacting project with
> continuous sync. audio.
>
>> I think
>> the issue is this: DV-AVI files are huge and the data
> rate is huge and this
>> puts a bit of stress on all but the fastest PCs.
>
> So how did Microsoft get their's to work on a minimum
> system?
>
>> In a
>> 21 minute DV-AVI file (4.5G!) there was one glitch. When backed up a
>> bit and replayed, it was perfect.
>
> I just noticed the same thing though a bit different. Had
> a 3 minute project and rendered it to tape twice. On each
> tape there occurred one dropout but in different
> locations. Restarted MM2, turned off the wireless
> interrogator...I just found out this runs in the
> background if not disabled, even when there isn't anything
> wireless around.... And I had a flawless copy to tape
> using the original render suggestion.
> So there is still much to say about having the system
> clean before rendering.
>
> Though about the amount of space this takes, I have 4
> projects totalling about 40 minutes and I'm looking at
> about 30 gigs of space taken up.
>
>> This internet thingy works pretty well
>> sometimes.
>
> Yes. I concur...Though I wish it were upon more creative
> things than working on the idosyncrasies of the computers
> which enable it.
>
> Anthony.
>
>
> P.S. Just remembered something else with respect to the
> click, pop thingy...Which if heard you'll, coincidently,
> see a clip change occurring in the Timeline.... I read a
> comment on a different forum regarding the Axo Composer
> Compositing program. One of the answers given as to why
> one would want to purchase the new program over just using
> the otherwise competent original free version was that the
> new version eliminated "clicks and pops at transitions" of
> the original.
>
> Thought you'd find that interesting..... appears Microsoft
> has some programming to do.
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Anthony
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Audio problem solution
Posted: 12-30-2003, 10:37 PM
Digger,

I appreciate your input.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge, if you will please
further explain a couple things. I'm not That computer
literate....only enough to drag myself through trouble.
>1. Use of 3rd party emulated DirectX drivers may cause
stuttered playback;
>OEM/ product specific.
I am only using whatever MM2 uses to manipulate and render
video.

Is this relevent to that?

>2. There is a problem in the Windows kernel mixer, which
causes short
>glitches or clicks at the start of playback or at the
beginning of a
>recording.
Is the kernel mixer used to Preview or render files in MM2
or is this strictly relevent to the Media Player?
>Thus, one must thoroughly check for noise at each new
rendering; a real
>pain-in-the ????
If I understand this yes, it is. But other than your
suggestion below, what, how, does one "check for noise",
understanding that it means find and eliminate. I have had
only inconsistent success in their elimination.
>3. WAV files may legally contain extra non-audio
information (markers,
>summary data, etc.);
Interesting tidbit. I hate "malware".
:-)
What's "legal" may not be right. But I'm sure I'm singing
to the choir here. I can certainly see how it would casue
a problem if the computer has to waste time processing
irrelevent information. You'd think MM@ would strip that
off upon importation.
> it is simply a good idea to insure source files are
well washed
>(cleaned) before use;
Would have never guessed, something surfing the wave.
Thanks for the advice and the link.
>I
>use the following for expediency, but many of todays
semipro audio
>converters and better editing suites will do as well or
better...
>StripWave -
http://www.lightlink.com/tjweber/StripWav/StripWav.html
>
As I suggested earlier I think Microsoft has some
programming to do to make MM2 as "pro-like" as It claims.

>All good arguments for building audio and video streams
independently;

So do you have any idea why it is when we render
independently there is a differential time compression in
the files?
>of tools that support scripted production;
Is this where we would need to know a programing language?
>Adobe Premier, Avid, Final Cut,
>etc, etc... Hmmm...WMM? Oooops!! My, how quickly I
digress.

Maybe not.
:-)
My experience with similar problems had in Final Cut in
fact was an improper CODEC used by that program all of
which were solved with an update. It seems the same may be
in order here, kernal, noise, and hidden headers,
notwithstanding.

Thanks again for your information.

Anthony.

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