Bootup Woes

Don,

My BIOS is set to look first at the optical drives, then at removable
drives, then at hard drives. I've tried setting it to look at the hard drive
first, but it just immediately says "boot disk failure."

So where in the boot sequence I see this message is right when an OS would
take over and start loading. Right after the two BIOS screens are completed
(the one with the RAM check and the second where it lists found components).

Thanks so much for your help!

Teddy

"Don" <don195702@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uDBmjyHdHHA.3960@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> Teddy Otero wrote:
> ...

>> Yesterday I installed my brand new Windows Vista Ultimate for the first
>> time. All was hunky-dory through install - imagine my dismay when I
>> rebooted for the first time without the install DVD and I got a big fat
>> error message (worse than ntldr): BOOT DISK FAILURE. INSERT DISK AND
>> PRESS ENTER. So what'd I do? Put the install disc back in and it boots
>> up fine...

>
> I'd want to know where in the boot sequence you see that message. It
> could be that you have your BIOS set to boot only from the DVD drive,
> for example, since it sounds like your hard drive is working okay.
>
> Is it your BIOS printing that error message, or does it come from some
> part of the Vista boot manager?
>

Hi,

First, ntldr missing is a big clue. Ntldr is not used in Vista, so it means
your mbr is not pointing to the right bootloader. I've seen this happen when
the system bios blocks the os setup from writing to the mbr during setup.
Erroneously, it is now looking for the wrong thing. Go into the system bios
and disable any feature regarding bios-based antivirus detection and save
changes. Then boot with Vista disk and run a startup repair.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

"Teddy Otero" <teddy@oterofam.com> wrote in message
news:3B172F07-5F9E-442E-819E-50DB4FF1BBE1@microsoft.com...

> Well I can't take it any more - I was sincerely hoping that upgrading from
> the beta would have fixed this!!!
>
> So when I was running the beta, I would get an "ntldr" error message at
> the very beginning of my bootup, after the bios screen. I tried to fix it
> with the install disc, but it couldn't find any startup problems. Ha! So,
> I fixed it in an odd way - I left the install DVD in during bootup, it
> would say "press any key to boot from CD or DVD..." but I would NOT touch
> a key, and when it would start booting from the hard drive, everything
> would be fine. Presumably it got some missing startup files from the DVD
> and used them to boot.
>
> Yesterday I installed my brand new Windows Vista Ultimate for the first
> time. All was hunky-dory through install - imagine my dismay when I
> rebooted for the first time without the install DVD and I got a big fat
> error message (worse than ntldr): BOOT DISK FAILURE. INSERT DISK AND PRESS
> ENTER. So what'd I do? Put the install disc back in and it boots up fine.
> Once again, the install disc says it can't find a startup problem. Lies!
>
>
> Boy I'm irritated. Does ANYone have ANY insight into this? I'd be in your
> debt forever...
>
> Teddy

Rick,

ntldr was the error I was getting when I was running the beta. And because I
was first trying to partition and then dual-boot and whatnot, I can totally
see why the MBR was messing up.

Now, however, I'm not getting a ntldr error. Since I installed the full
version yesterday, I'm just getting a "boot disk failure." When I booted
with the Vista disk and ran a startup repair, it said it couldn't find any
problems.

However, I'll definitely look more carefully through my bios and see what
kind of antivirus stuff I can disable.

Thanks so much!

Teddy

"Rick Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:%23gSfKgIdHHA.3960@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> Hi,
>
> First, ntldr missing is a big clue. Ntldr is not used in Vista, so it
> means your mbr is not pointing to the right bootloader. I've seen this
> happen when the system bios blocks the os setup from writing to the mbr
> during setup. Erroneously, it is now looking for the wrong thing. Go into
> the system bios and disable any feature regarding bios-based antivirus
> detection and save changes. Then boot with Vista disk and run a startup
> repair.
>
> --
> Best of Luck,
>
> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>
> "Teddy Otero" <teddy@oterofam.com> wrote in message
> news:3B172F07-5F9E-442E-819E-50DB4FF1BBE1@microsoft.com...

>> Well I can't take it any more - I was sincerely hoping that upgrading
>> from the beta would have fixed this!!!
>>
>> So when I was running the beta, I would get an "ntldr" error message at
>> the very beginning of my bootup, after the bios screen. I tried to fix it
>> with the install disc, but it couldn't find any startup problems. Ha! So,
>> I fixed it in an odd way - I left the install DVD in during bootup, it
>> would say "press any key to boot from CD or DVD..." but I would NOT touch
>> a key, and when it would start booting from the hard drive, everything
>> would be fine. Presumably it got some missing startup files from the DVD
>> and used them to boot.
>>
>> Yesterday I installed my brand new Windows Vista Ultimate for the first
>> time. All was hunky-dory through install - imagine my dismay when I
>> rebooted for the first time without the install DVD and I got a big fat
>> error message (worse than ntldr): BOOT DISK FAILURE. INSERT DISK AND
>> PRESS ENTER. So what'd I do? Put the install disc back in and it boots up
>> fine. Once again, the install disc says it can't find a startup problem.
>> Lies!
>>
>> Boy I'm irritated. Does ANYone have ANY insight into this? I'd be in your
>> debt forever...
>>
>> Teddy

>

I've also checked around my BIOS and can't find a THING about antivirus
stuff - I know exactly what you're talking about too - it would prevent
things from writing to the MBR. I have an... nForce4 board... this one,
actually: Asus A8N5X Socket 939.

Thanks again,

Teddy

"Rick Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:%23gSfKgIdHHA.3960@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> Hi,
>
> First, ntldr missing is a big clue. Ntldr is not used in Vista, so it
> means your mbr is not pointing to the right bootloader. I've seen this
> happen when the system bios blocks the os setup from writing to the mbr
> during setup. Erroneously, it is now looking for the wrong thing. Go into
> the system bios and disable any feature regarding bios-based antivirus
> detection and save changes. Then boot with Vista disk and run a startup
> repair.
>
> --
> Best of Luck,
>
> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>
> "Teddy Otero" <teddy@oterofam.com> wrote in message
> news:3B172F07-5F9E-442E-819E-50DB4FF1BBE1@microsoft.com...

>> Well I can't take it any more - I was sincerely hoping that upgrading
>> from the beta would have fixed this!!!
>>
>> So when I was running the beta, I would get an "ntldr" error message at
>> the very beginning of my bootup, after the bios screen. I tried to fix it
>> with the install disc, but it couldn't find any startup problems. Ha! So,
>> I fixed it in an odd way - I left the install DVD in during bootup, it
>> would say "press any key to boot from CD or DVD..." but I would NOT touch
>> a key, and when it would start booting from the hard drive, everything
>> would be fine. Presumably it got some missing startup files from the DVD
>> and used them to boot.
>>
>> Yesterday I installed my brand new Windows Vista Ultimate for the first
>> time. All was hunky-dory through install - imagine my dismay when I
>> rebooted for the first time without the install DVD and I got a big fat
>> error message (worse than ntldr): BOOT DISK FAILURE. INSERT DISK AND
>> PRESS ENTER. So what'd I do? Put the install disc back in and it boots up
>> fine. Once again, the install disc says it can't find a startup problem.
>> Lies!
>>
>> Boy I'm irritated. Does ANYone have ANY insight into this? I'd be in your
>> debt forever...
>>
>> Teddy

>

Are you running multiple hard drives on your computer?

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User


"Teddy Otero" <teddy@oterofam.com> wrote in message
news:3B172F07-5F9E-442E-819E-50DB4FF1BBE1@microsoft.com...

> Well I can't take it any more - I was sincerely hoping that upgrading from
> the beta would have fixed this!!!
>
> So when I was running the beta, I would get an "ntldr" error message at
> the very beginning of my bootup, after the bios screen. I tried to fix it
> with the install disc, but it couldn't find any startup problems. Ha! So,
> I fixed it in an odd way - I left the install DVD in during bootup, it
> would say "press any key to boot from CD or DVD..." but I would NOT touch
> a key, and when it would start booting from the hard drive, everything
> would be fine. Presumably it got some missing startup files from the DVD
> and used them to boot.
>
> Yesterday I installed my brand new Windows Vista Ultimate for the first
> time. All was hunky-dory through install - imagine my dismay when I
> rebooted for the first time without the install DVD and I got a big fat
> error message (worse than ntldr): BOOT DISK FAILURE. INSERT DISK AND PRESS
> ENTER. So what'd I do? Put the install disc back in and it boots up fine.
> Once again, the install disc says it can't find a startup problem. Lies!
>
>
> Boy I'm irritated. Does ANYone have ANY insight into this? I'd be in your
> debt forever...
>
> Teddy

Yes, but my bios lets me choose the order they boot up on. I have a sata
drive, two IDEs, and a removable USB drive. (and that's the order I have
them set up to boot). Do you think I should physically disconnect them and
see if that's the problem?

Teddy


"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23Jy0zGMdHHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> Are you running multiple hard drives on your computer?
>
> --
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Urban MVP
> Microsoft Windows Shell/User
>
>
> "Teddy Otero" <teddy@oterofam.com> wrote in message
> news:3B172F07-5F9E-442E-819E-50DB4FF1BBE1@microsoft.com...

>> Well I can't take it any more - I was sincerely hoping that upgrading
>> from the beta would have fixed this!!!
>>
>> So when I was running the beta, I would get an "ntldr" error message at
>> the very beginning of my bootup, after the bios screen. I tried to fix it
>> with the install disc, but it couldn't find any startup problems. Ha! So,
>> I fixed it in an odd way - I left the install DVD in during bootup, it
>> would say "press any key to boot from CD or DVD..." but I would NOT touch
>> a key, and when it would start booting from the hard drive, everything
>> would be fine. Presumably it got some missing startup files from the DVD
>> and used them to boot.
>>
>> Yesterday I installed my brand new Windows Vista Ultimate for the first
>> time. All was hunky-dory through install - imagine my dismay when I
>> rebooted for the first time without the install DVD and I got a big fat
>> error message (worse than ntldr): BOOT DISK FAILURE. INSERT DISK AND
>> PRESS ENTER. So what'd I do? Put the install disc back in and it boots up
>> fine. Once again, the install disc says it can't find a startup problem.
>> Lies!
>>
>> Boy I'm irritated. Does ANYone have ANY insight into this? I'd be in your
>> debt forever...
>>
>> Teddy

>

I have installed the various versions of Vista on 60 various computers. On
eight of those computers I have run into, and solved, this nasty boot
problem. I have also assisted with this problem for a rather large handful
of people who post here with a similar condition.

The problem concerns computers with the following configuration/condition:

1. A computer with multiple hard drives (any mix of S-ATA or PATA it
turns out)

2. Any of the 2nd, or higher, drives has been setup as having a logical
partition/partitions

3. The user installs Vista by booting from the DVD

When a drive is setup with a logical partition, 8 meg of unallocated space
is reserved at the beginning of the drive.

The Vista installer, it appears, will start installing boot code to the
unallocated space on a 2nd, 3rd or 4th drive. I have used a hex editor and
have found this code there. This 8 meg of unallocated space is quickly
filled and the installer places the remainder of the code on the disk chosen
by the user for the Vista install.

The Vista install completes and the user removes the DVD. Upon startup, the
user finds that Vista will not boot. Vista is looking for the boot code on
the drive where the user had chosen to install Vista (system partition). It
is not there. Part of it resides on another drive where it is not
recognized.

If the user puts the DVD into the drive tray, Vista boots fine. Startup
takes the code from the DVD.

This should not occur, but it is too late to change the code on the Vista
DVD's at this point. The work around is to physically disconnect any drive
that you do not want the Vista installer to touch. In this way, all of the
code is written to the desired drive/partition.

Upon arriving at the Windows desktop, go to system management | Disk
Management and change the drive letters for your CD drive, DVD drive, USB
drives, card readers etc. to the end of the alphabet. This gets them out of
the way prior to you shutting down the computer and reconnecting your other
drives.

Now, shut down your computer and reconnect your drives. Upon booting to the
desktop, you will see that the new drives are recognized and initialized.
You will also see that the drive letters are in sequence, and not broken up
by the various other drives (you previously moved them). You may be asked to
reboot so the changes can be made permanent. Do so if directed.

The next time you boot to the desktop you can rearrange those re-lettered
drives if you so desire.

Now, I am not certain how pervasive this problem is but I have seen it on
old/new motherboards from 3 major M/B manufacturers. It is not, of course,
going to affect those who purchase a new computer with Vista on it. It
"will" affect those who upgrade or build their own computers, as these are
the users who are more likely to have multiple drives installed in their
machines.


--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User


"Teddy Otero" <teddy@oterofam.com> wrote in message
news:%23u2HDVNdHHA.2268@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> Yes, but my bios lets me choose the order they boot up on. I have a sata
> drive, two IDEs, and a removable USB drive. (and that's the order I have
> them set up to boot). Do you think I should physically disconnect them and
> see if that's the problem?
>
> Teddy
>
>
> "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%23Jy0zGMdHHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> Are you running multiple hard drives on your computer?
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Richard Urban MVP
>> Microsoft Windows Shell/User
>>
>>
>> "Teddy Otero" <teddy@oterofam.com> wrote in message
>> news:3B172F07-5F9E-442E-819E-50DB4FF1BBE1@microsoft.com...

>>> Well I can't take it any more - I was sincerely hoping that upgrading
>>> from the beta would have fixed this!!!
>>>
>>> So when I was running the beta, I would get an "ntldr" error message at
>>> the very beginning of my bootup, after the bios screen. I tried to fix
>>> it with the install disc, but it couldn't find any startup problems. Ha!
>>> So, I fixed it in an odd way - I left the install DVD in during bootup,
>>> it would say "press any key to boot from CD or DVD..." but I would NOT
>>> touch a key, and when it would start booting from the hard drive,
>>> everything would be fine. Presumably it got some missing startup files
>>> from the DVD and used them to boot.
>>>
>>> Yesterday I installed my brand new Windows Vista Ultimate for the first
>>> time. All was hunky-dory through install - imagine my dismay when I
>>> rebooted for the first time without the install DVD and I got a big fat
>>> error message (worse than ntldr): BOOT DISK FAILURE. INSERT DISK AND
>>> PRESS ENTER. So what'd I do? Put the install disc back in and it boots
>>> up fine. Once again, the install disc says it can't find a startup
>>> problem. Lies!
>>>
>>> Boy I'm irritated. Does ANYone have ANY insight into this? I'd be in
>>> your debt forever...
>>>
>>> Teddy

>>

>

Holy cow! Thanks so much - that sounds like my problem exactly...

I'm confused, however, about your "workaround." Do I need to
reformat/reinstall without the other drives attached or are your
instructions below just a fix I can do on my current vista install? It seems
like there must be a missing step or description, because I'm a little
confused.

> Upon arriving at the Windows desktop, go to system management | Disk
> Management and change the drive letters for your CD drive, DVD drive, USB
> drives, card readers etc. to the end of the alphabet. This gets them out
> of
> the way prior to you shutting down the computer and reconnecting your
> other
> drives.

Arriving from where? A fresh install?

Thanks,

Teddy


"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OFCMQ8NdHHA.4964@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>I have installed the various versions of Vista on 60 various computers. On
> eight of those computers I have run into, and solved, this nasty boot
> problem. I have also assisted with this problem for a rather large handful
> of people who post here with a similar condition.
>
> The problem concerns computers with the following configuration/condition:
>
> 1. A computer with multiple hard drives (any mix of S-ATA or PATA it
> turns out)
>
> 2. Any of the 2nd, or higher, drives has been setup as having a logical
> partition/partitions
>
> 3. The user installs Vista by booting from the DVD
>
> When a drive is setup with a logical partition, 8 meg of unallocated space
> is reserved at the beginning of the drive.
>
> The Vista installer, it appears, will start installing boot code to the
> unallocated space on a 2nd, 3rd or 4th drive. I have used a hex editor and
> have found this code there. This 8 meg of unallocated space is quickly
> filled and the installer places the remainder of the code on the disk
> chosen
> by the user for the Vista install.
>
> The Vista install completes and the user removes the DVD. Upon startup,
> the
> user finds that Vista will not boot. Vista is looking for the boot code on
> the drive where the user had chosen to install Vista (system partition).
> It
> is not there. Part of it resides on another drive where it is not
> recognized.
>
> If the user puts the DVD into the drive tray, Vista boots fine. Startup
> takes the code from the DVD.
>
> This should not occur, but it is too late to change the code on the Vista
> DVD's at this point. The work around is to physically disconnect any drive
> that you do not want the Vista installer to touch. In this way, all of the
> code is written to the desired drive/partition.
>
> Upon arriving at the Windows desktop, go to system management | Disk
> Management and change the drive letters for your CD drive, DVD drive, USB
> drives, card readers etc. to the end of the alphabet. This gets them out
> of
> the way prior to you shutting down the computer and reconnecting your
> other
> drives.
>
> Now, shut down your computer and reconnect your drives. Upon booting to
> the
> desktop, you will see that the new drives are recognized and initialized.
> You will also see that the drive letters are in sequence, and not broken
> up
> by the various other drives (you previously moved them). You may be asked
> to
> reboot so the changes can be made permanent. Do so if directed.
>
> The next time you boot to the desktop you can rearrange those re-lettered
> drives if you so desire.
>
> Now, I am not certain how pervasive this problem is but I have seen it on
> old/new motherboards from 3 major M/B manufacturers. It is not, of course,
> going to affect those who purchase a new computer with Vista on it. It
> "will" affect those who upgrade or build their own computers, as these are
> the users who are more likely to have multiple drives installed in their
> machines.
>
>
> --
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Urban MVP
> Microsoft Windows Shell/User
>
>
> "Teddy Otero" <teddy@oterofam.com> wrote in message
> news:%23u2HDVNdHHA.2268@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>> Yes, but my bios lets me choose the order they boot up on. I have a sata
>> drive, two IDEs, and a removable USB drive. (and that's the order I have
>> them set up to boot). Do you think I should physically disconnect them
>> and see if that's the problem?
>>
>> Teddy
>>
>>
>> "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:%23Jy0zGMdHHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>> Are you running multiple hard drives on your computer?
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Richard Urban MVP
>>> Microsoft Windows Shell/User
>>>
>>>
>>> "Teddy Otero" <teddy@oterofam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:3B172F07-5F9E-442E-819E-50DB4FF1BBE1@microsoft.com...
>>>> Well I can't take it any more - I was sincerely hoping that upgrading
>>>> from the beta would have fixed this!!!
>>>>
>>>> So when I was running the beta, I would get an "ntldr" error message at
>>>> the very beginning of my bootup, after the bios screen. I tried to fix
>>>> it with the install disc, but it couldn't find any startup problems.
>>>> Ha! So, I fixed it in an odd way - I left the install DVD in during
>>>> bootup, it would say "press any key to boot from CD or DVD..." but I
>>>> would NOT touch a key, and when it would start booting from the hard
>>>> drive, everything would be fine. Presumably it got some missing startup
>>>> files from the DVD and used them to boot.
>>>>
>>>> Yesterday I installed my brand new Windows Vista Ultimate for the first
>>>> time. All was hunky-dory through install - imagine my dismay when I
>>>> rebooted for the first time without the install DVD and I got a big fat
>>>> error message (worse than ntldr): BOOT DISK FAILURE. INSERT DISK AND
>>>> PRESS ENTER. So what'd I do? Put the install disc back in and it boots
>>>> up fine. Once again, the install disc says it can't find a startup
>>>> problem. Lies!
>>>>
>>>> Boy I'm irritated. Does ANYone have ANY insight into this? I'd be in
>>>> your debt forever...
>>>>
>>>> Teddy
>>>

>>

>