netlink_blue
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Re: Did Microsoft Make a two way firewall with Vista Home Premium?
Posted: 10-15-2007, 11:02 PM
NetLink_Blue wrote:
>
> "Straight Talk" <b__nice@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4ru5h39qgcdsjct2j33u8purn9af9opi8v@4ax.com...
>
>> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 09:10:11 -0700, "NetLink_Blue"
>
>
>> I'm not the one complaining here, am I?
>
>
> Neither am I.
>
>> I have no problem using MS
>> products.
>
>
> So you're out-of-place on this forum. Take a hike, Homer.
Sorry ST. I misread your having "no problem" running MS products as
"I've had no PROBLEMS running MS products." :\

Nobody gives a flying-farkle about your trust in MS. Please, can you
just get over yourself? OK? Thanks. (Nl_B)


>> Thing is, your idea of being in control is flawed.
>
>
> Nobody's perfect. Get over it.
>
> NetLink_Blue
>
netlink_blue
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Did Microsoft Make a two way firewall with Vista Home Premium?
Posted: 10-15-2007, 11:55 PM
Rob Harmer wrote:
> Don't forget that Vista is also sending a hell of a lot more telemetry
> data out when it phones home as well!
> see what else Vista is harvesting off your PC
> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Forge...ft-58752.shtml
>
>
> Don't forget to check out the vulnerabilities with Teredo IPv6 as well
> see
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/...oncerns-00.txt
> and http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/ref...o_Security.pdf
> and http://www.securiteam.com/securityre...C00O2KHFK.html and
> http://www.symantec.com/enterprise/s...s_vista_n.html
>
>
> Rob

==== IN THE NEWS ================================

Microsoft Windows Update Again in Auto-Reboot Controversy

by Paul Thurrott, thurrott@windowsitpro.com

It seems that Microsoft hasn't yet fixed a problem with Windows Update
that was causing Windows PCs all around the globe to automatically
update themselves and then reboot overnight. But this time, the
software giant isn't causing the auto-reboot behavior purposefully, it
says. Which leads us to an even more disturbing scenario: Why can't
Microsoft figure out why its own software is causing PCs to keep
rebooting?

According to a discussion thread on AeroXperience, users who had
configured Windows Update to download but not install updates recently
discovered that their machines had rebooted overnight after installing
updates automatically. Additionally, the Windows Update setting had
somehow reverted to "install automatically."

Microsoft says it has made no changes to Windows Update or Automatic
Updates that would cause this behavior. "We have been hearing some
questions recently regarding Tuesday's update release changing
automatic updating settings," Microsoft Update program manager Nate
Clinton wrote recently in one of the company's blogs. "We are still
looking into this to see if another application is making this change
during setup with user consent, or if this issue is related to
something else. We are continuing the investigation."

Last month, Microsoft found itself embroiled in controversy after it
was discovered that the company had silently updated the Windows
Update components in various Windows versions without alerting
customers. The software giant has since changed the way it delivers
such updates, making this week's events all the more disturbing. But
Microsoft seems to believe that components outside of Windows Update
are making the changes this time. In other words, this isn't some
insidious plot, at least not from those responsible for Windows
Update.

AeroXperience - Automatic Update feature forces machines across the
globe to reboot:
http://list.windowsitpro.com/t?ctl=6...F8D06F24CFFB06

http://list.windowsitpro.com/t?ctl=6...F8D06F24CFFB06

========

Those Teredo tweaks must be complex to code. Nips!

Netlink

Straight Talk
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Did Microsoft Make a two way firewall with Vista Home Premium?
Posted: 10-16-2007, 05:28 AM
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:02:30 -0700, netlink_blue <pcjtv@cooltoad.com>
wrote:
>NetLink_Blue wrote:
>>
>> "Straight Talk" <b__nice@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:4ru5h39qgcdsjct2j33u8purn9af9opi8v@4ax.com...
>>
>>> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 09:10:11 -0700, "NetLink_Blue"
>>
>>
>>> I'm not the one complaining here, am I?
>>
>>
>> Neither am I.
>>
>>> I have no problem using MS
>>> products.
>>
>>
>> So you're out-of-place on this forum. Take a hike, Homer.
>
>Sorry ST. I misread your having "no problem" running MS products as
>"I've had no PROBLEMS running MS products." :\
>
>Nobody gives a flying-farkle about your trust in MS.
My possible trust in anything is not the issue here. You're babbling.
>Please, can you
>just get over yourself? OK? Thanks. (Nl_B)
You still don't get it, do you?

You can't be running windows without trusting MS. It's that simple.
>
>
>
>>> Thing is, your idea of being in control is flawed.
>>
>>
>> Nobody's perfect.
Obviously not.
>Get over it.
>>
>> NetLink_Blue
>>
netlink_blue
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Did Microsoft Make a two way firewall with Vista Home Premium?
Posted: 10-16-2007, 02:36 PM
Straight Talk wrote:

> My possible trust in anything is not the issue here. You're babbling.
Possible Trust in Anything? What are you babbling about, Slinky-One.

> You still don't get it, do you?
That you're a sly s-s-snake? That your name isn't Homer? Let's let the
humble reader decide what's what, eh Forked-Tongue.
> You can't be running windows without trusting MS. It's that simple.
You sure presume to speak on behalf of a lot of folks.

Catch you later, s-s-snake,
- netlink
Straight Talk
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Did Microsoft Make a two way firewall with Vista Home Premium?
Posted: 10-17-2007, 09:29 AM
On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:36:56 -0700, netlink_blue <pcjtv@cooltoad.com>
wrote:
>Straight Talk wrote:
>
>
>> My possible trust in anything is not the issue here. You're babbling.
>
>Possible Trust in Anything? What are you babbling about, Slinky-One.
>
>
>> You still don't get it, do you?
>
>That you're a sly s-s-snake? That your name isn't Homer? Let's let the
>humble reader decide what's what, eh Forked-Tongue.
>
>> You can't be running windows without trusting MS. It's that simple.
>
>You sure presume to speak on behalf of a lot of folks.
>
> Catch you later, s-s-snake,
> - netlink

Okay. You're obviously here to troll.

Thread-PLONK.
netlink_blue
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Did Microsoft Make a two way firewall with Vista Home Premium?
Posted: 10-17-2007, 04:17 PM
Straight Talk wrote:
> Okay. You're obviously here to troll.
>
> Thread-PLONK.

I Googled on Windows "backdoors" this morning. Creepy.

I stand corrected. Microsoft programmer(s) can insert backdoor code in
an amazing variety of ways (I'm even now listening to a Steve Gibson
podcast about the MetaFile vulnerability).

ST had written
"See, MS is in charge of the OS kernel. If they want to
phone home without ANY software firewall noticing it, they can just do
so."

Not quite as easy-peasy as ST makes it sound, but I basically am in
agreement. Almost impossible to catch Microsoft with their "hands in
the cookie jar", unless by happenstance/fluke as described by Google
search articles. And impossible to prove or disprove as deliberate.

- = - = -


This statement by ST is somewhat misleading and TOTALLY misses the mark:

"If you don't trust MS you have no choice but to not run windows. It's
that simple."



From Richard's "Why I Hate Microsoft" Page
http://www.twoengineers.com/Richard/microsoft.html

Q: If you hate Windows so much, why don't you just quit bitching and use
some other operating system??

A: Perhaps you haven't heard: Microsoft is a monopoly. I don't jettison
Microsoft for the same reason I wouldn't abandon gasoline as an
automobile fuel.

[snip] ...In short, defying the marketplace is easy to
talk about, much harder to do. Note that this does not mean that
Gasoline is in any way inherently superior to other fuel technologies,
nor does it mean that I owe a debt of gratitude to the oil companies or
OPEC. They just happened to be in the right place at the right time,
just like Microsoft.

I hate Microsoft, but not quite enough to tell my employer that I refuse
to do my job, stop playing the games I enjoy, and stop using my scanner,
video capture card, digital camera, removable disks, and the dozens of
programs and thousands of files I have that are usable only on Microsoft
systems. This situation was not my choice. It is precisely my lack of
choice that created it.

- = - = -

My own example would be phone companies. I don't "trust" them or like
them, but I sure am not about to give up on phone service.

netlink_blue
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Did Microsoft Make a two way firewall with Vista Home Premium?
Posted: 10-18-2007, 05:03 PM
Straight Talk wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 07:42:31 -0700, "NetLink_Blue"
> <PcjTv@cooltoad.com> wrote:
>>>Outbound protection is security theateróitís a
>>>gimmick that only gives the impression of improving your security without
>>>doing anything that actually does improve your security. This is why
>>>outbound protection didnít exist in the Windows XP firewall and why it
>>>doesnít exist in the Windows Vistaô firewall."
>>
>>Someone, please SLAP Homer Simpson for the above baloney. Thanks.
>
>
> Someone please educate yourself about the windows platform design to
> understand why outbound protection *is* security theater.

I have started to educate myself about "the windows platform design"
re: outbound protection.

Windows OS leaks like a sieve. There is no firewall that can contain
all the "known" exploits that exist.

Microsoft themselves can not build a firewall with reasonably secure
outbound protection without "breaking" most/too-many Windows capablities
& convenience features.

When drama-queen Straight Talk mocks outbound firewall protection, he
has a point (but his hair covers it up). In my eyes, ST is really
mocking Windows OS. Firewalls don't really "leak" - it's Windows that
leaks! Software firewalls get carried along for the ride on Windows OS
code. And there is really no practical way on God's green earth to stop
Windows from leaking, unless you keep yourself disconnected from the
Internet.

The real STAR of outbound "Security-Theater" is Windows.

Do firewall companies play-up and overstate their capablities? I
believe they do. (shock, gasp, dismay)

Not all adware or malware goes to all 15 or so extremes of exploits ...

http://www.firewallleaktester.com/index.html

I have lived behind a router for many years now. I shutter at the
thought of directly hooking up to the 'Net. The firewalls I have run
with outbound filters have served me with a modicum of convenience and
alerts. But, who knows ...

the Shadow knows,
NetLnk

Get a router. Use Vista's firewall (or XP SP-2's) to at least cloak all
your open ports if directily connected.
Straight Talk
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Did Microsoft Make a two way firewall with Vista Home Premium?
Posted: 10-18-2007, 05:46 PM
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:03:17 -0700, netlink_blue <pcjtv@cooltoad.com>
wrote:
>I have started to educate myself about "the windows platform design"
> re: outbound protection.
Finally.
>Windows OS leaks like a sieve.
An OS leaking? - Never heard about such a thing. What does a leaking
OS look like?
>There is no firewall that can contain all the "known" exploits that exist.
You don't necessarily need to exploit anything. Just using standard
windows functionality will do.
>Microsoft themselves can not build a firewall with reasonably secure
>outbound protection without "breaking" most/too-many Windows capablities
>& convenience features.
Right. But at least they admit that openly.
>When drama-queen Straight Talk mocks outbound firewall protection, he
>has a point (but his hair covers it up). In my eyes, ST is really
>mocking Windows OS.
Not really. It's not MS or windows claiming to be able to do magic, is
it? It's the "firewall" vendors. At least MS is honest enough to admit
that host based outbound protection on their windows platform is a
waste of time and resources.
>Firewalls don't really "leak" - it's Windows that leaks!
This doesn't become true just by being repeated.
>Software firewalls get carried along for the ride on Windows OS
>code. And there is really no practical way on God's green earth to stop
>Windows from leaking, unless you keep yourself disconnected from the
>Internet.
>
>The real STAR of outbound "Security-Theater" is Windows.
Windows is a multi-purpose OS made with functionality and convenience
in mind. What exactly do you expect?
>Do firewall companies play-up and overstate their capablities? I
>believe they do. (shock, gasp, dismay)
You bet. They are selling snake-oil.
>Not all adware or malware goes to all 15 or so extremes of exploits ...
>
> http://www.firewallleaktester.com/index.html
>
>I have lived behind a router for many years now. I shutter at the
>thought of directly hooking up to the 'Net. The firewalls I have run
>with outbound filters have served me with a modicum of convenience and
>alerts. But, who knows ...
>
> the Shadow knows,
> NetLnk
>
>Get a router. Use Vista's firewall (or XP SP-2's) to at least cloak all
>your open ports if directily connected.
For several years I hooked up W2K machines directly to the Internet
after having configured them properly. No problems.
 
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