Latest Norton Utilities, good-news/bad-news

Posted: 01-18-2004, 10:35 PM
Newest Norton Utilities version 8.0.1 for the Mac is now compatable
(kind-of) with Panther.

The stuff I am interested in runs great, namely their "Disk Editor X"
and Speed Disk.

As regards their Disk Doctor utility, that appears to be buggy. Disk
Doctor reports that there are all sorts of things wrong with the file
system, while Panther's own disk "first-aid" utility gives the file
system a clean bill of health. I don't trust Disk Doctor's reports.

I doubt if I will ever complain about Apple's buggy Panther "Disk
Utility" again, given my recent experiences with Symantec. Not only
are Norton Utilities buggy in some of their utilities, but their
website is confusing to navigate, and their "Live Update" gimmick is a
royal PITA.

The newest Panther-compatable version 8.0.1 of Norton Utilities is a
6.2 MB download, which is free. Unfortunately, Symantec makes it very
difficult/impossible to download the new version directly.

Right now, it appears you _have_ to install the older 8.0 version
first, then use the "Live-Update" feature in order to download the
newest version 8.0.1 which Panther needs.

Eventually, Symantec will ship a Panther-compatable physical CD ver
8.0.1 - - - at least they say so on their website.

They claimed that such a CD would be available by mid-January, but so
far it has not shown up.



On a more optimistic note, I celebrated by partitioning my internal
drive the following way, using Panther's buggy Disk Utility along with
Norton's newest Disk Editor:

exact size name
***************************************
012.00 GB Panther
016.00 MB Buffer
004.00 MB Tiny
512.00 MB OS9
020.00 GB Storage


Normally, Panther's buggy Disk Utility is not capable of preserving the
above desired order of partitions, much less their desired exact size.

Jaguar's version of Disk Utility is not afflicted with those bugs, BTW.

Now, thanks to Norton's Disk Editor, I can force the buggy Panther Disk
Utility to observe my prefered order of where I want the partitions to
be located, and force the exact sizes of partitions to be obtained,
just like when using Jaguar.

Now to answer the obvious question. Why not just use Jaguar's older
Disk Utility to do all my partitioning. That would indeed work in the
short run, but there is no guarantee that it would work when Apple
makes future changes to OS X.

With the Norton Disk Editor 'workaround', I can use any future versions
of Disk Utility along with all of its new 'features' (like journaling,
for example) - - - and still enjoy the exact partition sizing and
correct order-of-partitions.

It is a hassle doing the workaround, but bearable because I don't
partition disks all that often.

Mark-
Reply With Quote

Responses to "Latest Norton Utilities, good-news/bad-news"

Steve W. Jackson
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Latest Norton Utilities, good-news/bad-news
Posted: 01-18-2004, 11:10 PM
In article <180120041437427043%NoSpamDammit@invalid.com>,
Mark Conrad <NoSpamDammit@invalid.com> wrote:

:> Newest Norton Utilities version 8.0.1 for the Mac is now compatable
:> (kind-of) with Panther.
:>
:> The stuff I am interested in runs great, namely their "Disk Editor X"
:> and Speed Disk.
:>
:> As regards their Disk Doctor utility, that appears to be buggy. Disk
:> Doctor reports that there are all sorts of things wrong with the file
:> system, while Panther's own disk "first-aid" utility gives the file
:> system a clean bill of health. I don't trust Disk Doctor's reports.
:>
:> I doubt if I will ever complain about Apple's buggy Panther "Disk
:> Utility" again, given my recent experiences with Symantec. Not only
:> are Norton Utilities buggy in some of their utilities, but their
:> website is confusing to navigate, and their "Live Update" gimmick is a
:> royal PITA.
:>
:> The newest Panther-compatable version 8.0.1 of Norton Utilities is a
:> 6.2 MB download, which is free. Unfortunately, Symantec makes it very
:> difficult/impossible to download the new version directly.
:>
:> Right now, it appears you _have_ to install the older 8.0 version
:> first, then use the "Live-Update" feature in order to download the
:> newest version 8.0.1 which Panther needs.
:>
:> Eventually, Symantec will ship a Panther-compatable physical CD ver
:> 8.0.1 - - - at least they say so on their website.
:>
:> They claimed that such a CD would be available by mid-January, but so
:> far it has not shown up.
:>
:>
:>
:> On a more optimistic note, I celebrated by partitioning my internal
:> drive the following way, using Panther's buggy Disk Utility along with
:> Norton's newest Disk Editor:
:>
:> exact size name
:> ***************************************
:> 012.00 GB Panther
:> 016.00 MB Buffer
:> 004.00 MB Tiny
:> 512.00 MB OS9
:> 020.00 GB Storage
:>
:>
:> Normally, Panther's buggy Disk Utility is not capable of preserving the
:> above desired order of partitions, much less their desired exact size.
:>
:> Jaguar's version of Disk Utility is not afflicted with those bugs, BTW.
:>
:> Now, thanks to Norton's Disk Editor, I can force the buggy Panther Disk
:> Utility to observe my prefered order of where I want the partitions to
:> be located, and force the exact sizes of partitions to be obtained,
:> just like when using Jaguar.
:>
:> Now to answer the obvious question. Why not just use Jaguar's older
:> Disk Utility to do all my partitioning. That would indeed work in the
:> short run, but there is no guarantee that it would work when Apple
:> makes future changes to OS X.
:>
:> With the Norton Disk Editor 'workaround', I can use any future versions
:> of Disk Utility along with all of its new 'features' (like journaling,
:> for example) - - - and still enjoy the exact partition sizing and
:> correct order-of-partitions.
:>
:> It is a hassle doing the workaround, but bearable because I don't
:> partition disks all that often.
:>
:> Mark-

A recent issue of TidBITs has an excellent article on disk utilities,
and it may well explain why Disk Utility and Norton see and report
different things. The bottom line seems to be that they could both be
right (within their own abilities). You may want to check it out at <http://www.tidbits.com/tb-issues/TidBITS-707.html>.

= Steve =
--
Steve W. Jackson
Montgomery, Alabama
Reply With Quote
George Williams
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Latest Norton Utilities, good-news/bad-news
Posted: 01-18-2004, 11:57 PM
Mark Conrad wrote:
>
> Newest Norton Utilities version 8.0.1 for the Mac is now compatable
> (kind-of) with Panther.
With Norton, it's never good news/bad news.
It's usually bad news/worse news.
Reply With Quote
Mike Rosenberg
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Latest Norton Utilities, good-news/bad-news
Posted: 01-19-2004, 01:46 PM
Mark Conrad <NoSpamDammit@invalid.com> wrote:
> Disk Doctor reports that there are all sorts of things wrong with the file
> system, while Panther's own disk "first-aid" utility gives the file system
> a clean bill of health.
I'm not saying that Norton's report is entirely correct, but in general
the ability to find and fix problems that Disk First Aid cannot is the
very reason to buy a third-party utility. Try running Disk Warrior,
which I trust 100%, on a volume that Apple's utility just gave a clean
bill of health.

--
Mike Rosenberg

<http://www.macconsult.com> Macintosh consulting services for NE Florida
<http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart
Reply With Quote
Mark Conrad
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Latest Norton Utilities, good-news/bad-news
Posted: 01-19-2004, 10:50 PM
In article <1g7svuw.6k9kjwlqb0l8N%mike@POSTTOGROUP.invalid> , Mike
Rosenberg <mike@POSTTOGROUP.invalid> wrote:
> > Disk Doctor reports that there are all sorts of things wrong with the file
> > system, while Panther's own disk "first-aid" utility gives the file system
> > a clean bill of health.
>
> I'm not saying that Norton's report is entirely correct, but in general
> the ability to find and fix problems that Disk First Aid cannot is the
> very reason to buy a third-party utility. Try running Disk Warrior,
> which I trust 100%, on a volume that Apple's utility just gave a clean
> bill of health.
Okay, I will take a closer look, I could very well have been wrong.

Mark-
Reply With Quote
Mark Conrad
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Latest Norton Utilities, good-news/bad-news
Posted: 01-19-2004, 10:50 PM
In article <400B1D6A.67A0F547@mac.com>, George Williams
<nyar1ath0tep@mac.com> wrote:
> > Newest Norton Utilities version 8.0.1 for the Mac is now compatable
> > (kind-of) with Panther.
>
> With Norton, it's never good news/bad news.
> It's usually bad news/worse news.
heh, heh :) - - - There is a posting in the comp.lang.lisp
newsgroup that suggests that crapware may actually be advantagous to
the long term healthy evolution of software in general.

The gent who posted it is a recognized guru. I recall paying very
close attention to his mutterings when I was programming in Lisp many
years ago.

If one can wade through some of his egghead preliminary stuff in that
long post, one can get a feeling that he presents a very good argument
for why an outfit like Symantec fields such lousy software.

It could very well be a conscious decision, designed to improve their
profits and keep them competitive.


Newsgroup: comp.lang.lisp
Subject title: O'Reilly subjugated to the Lisp juggernaut
Author of post: Eric Naggum

Mark-
Reply With Quote
Mark Conrad
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Latest Norton Utilities, good-news/bad-news
Posted: 01-19-2004, 10:50 PM
In article <stevewjackson-D2F1F6.17104418012004@corp.supernews.com>,
Steve W. Jackson <stevewjackson@charter.net> wrote:
> > As regards their Disk Doctor utility, that appears to be buggy. Disk
> > Doctor reports that there are all sorts of things wrong with the file
> > system, while Panther's own disk "first-aid" utility gives the file
> > system a clean bill of health. I don't trust Disk Doctor's reports.
>
> A recent issue of TidBITs has an excellent article on disk utilities,
> and it may well explain why Disk Utility and Norton see and report
> different things. The bottom line seems to be that they could both be
> right (within their own abilities). You may want to check it out at
> <http://www.tidbits.com/tb-issues/TidBITS-707.html>.
That is indeed a very good article by David Shayer; it opened my eyes
to realize that any one file-system repair utility may not be able to
repair everything - - - it could pay to use several repair util's

I just kinda whizzed through my checkout of Norton's Disk Doctor.

I better go back and make more detailed checks before I conclude that
it is flawed.

For those who might want to read the article you recommended, here is a
slightly more detailed pointer to the article:

http://www.tidbits.com/tb-issues/TidBITS-707.html#lnk3

Scroll down that webpage about a third of the way, look for the
beginning of the article at -

"Shootout at the Disk Repair Corral"

Among other useful info', the article decribes the purpose of a lot of
the file system "housekeeping" files.

Mark-
Reply With Quote
Peter KERR
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Latest Norton Utilities, good-news/bad-news
Posted: 01-20-2004, 04:11 AM
> As regards their Disk Doctor utility, that appears to be buggy. Disk
> Doctor reports that there are all sorts of things wrong with the file
> system, while Panther's own disk "first-aid" utility gives the file
> system a clean bill of health. I don't trust Disk Doctor's reports.
>
oooaarrr - the Norton bashers are at it again ;-)

Apple's own Disk First Aid has been a standing (or falling over
laughing) joke round here since at least OS 6.

I admit, by 10.2 it's starting to grow up, but I'll give it a few more
years before it's ready for Prime Time...
Reply With Quote
Mark Conrad
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Latest Norton Utilities, good-news/bad-news
Posted: 01-20-2004, 01:25 PM
In article <1g7svuw.6k9kjwlqb0l8N%mike@POSTTOGROUP.invalid> , Mike
Rosenberg <mike@POSTTOGROUP.invalid> wrote:
> > Disk Doctor reports that there are all sorts of things wrong with the file
> > system, while Panther's own disk "first-aid" utility gives the file system
> > a clean bill of health.
>
> I'm not saying that Norton's report is entirely correct, but in general
> the ability to find and fix problems that Disk First Aid cannot is the
> very reason to buy a third-party utility. Try running Disk Warrior,
> which I trust 100%, on a volume that Apple's utility just gave a clean
> bill of health.
I agree entirely with your post, but the problem here runs a bit deeper.

This is a case where DiskWarrior 3.0 could actually be triggering the
problem. (when DW3 is rebuilding a Jaguar partition's directory)

Let me explain.

I had forgotten that my particular hardware, a Pismo 500MHz model, has
problems running with DiskWarrior version 3.0
(computer freezes and breaking file system housekeeping files)

....only when repairing Jaguar directories, no problem rebuilding
Panther directories with DW3

The freezes can be eliminated by booting from the DW3 CD, however
breaking of housekeeping files still occurs when DW3 works on a Jaguar
directory, on Macs afflicted with the problems.

Apparently not all Pismo powerbooks are afflicted. During a
l-o-o-n-g thread about DW2 vs DW3, one system administrator reported
that about a third of his Macs were afflicted with this problem.
(various models, not Pismos) Most Mac users do not encounter the
problem, so DW3 runs fine for them rebuilding Panther *or* Jaguar.

I just now abandoned DW 3.0 and reverted to using the older version of
DiskWarrior version 2.1.1 then the "problem" with Norton's Disk-Doctor
reporting major failures completely disappeared. (on a Jaguar
partition)

If I switched back to using DW3, the problems resurfaced.

Go figure.

To elaborate a little more, as long as I use the older DW2 to rebuild a
Jaguar directory, everything works fine.

If I forget and use DW3 to rebuild Jaguar, it "breaks" stuff, reason
unknown.

It could be a bug in DW3 or it could be some obscure quality-control
problem with Mac hardware.

I am inclined to think it is a quality-control hardware problem,
because DW3 works well on most Macs, regardless of model.

Bottom line, Norton's Disk Doctor works okay. I was wrong about
suspecting it of causing the problems.

Mark-
Reply With Quote
Mark Conrad
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Latest Norton Utilities, good-news/bad-news
Posted: 01-20-2004, 01:36 PM
In article <user-95AE26.17113020012004@scream.auckland.ac.nz>, Peter
KERR <user@host.domain> wrote:
> oooaarrr - the Norton bashers are at it again ;-)
Guilty as charged, I was wrong. Disk Doctor is going to be one of my
standard tools for fixing messed up file-system housekeeping files.

After reading that website article, think I will add "Drive 10" to my
list of must-have utilities also.

I tried to hedge my derogatory remarks about Norton Disk Doctor by
posting that it _appeared_ to be buggy ;-)

Mark-
Reply With Quote
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Latest news regarding memory limitations FYIGMO Windows Vista Performance & Maintenance 1 04-11-2008 01:50 AM
Good news Adam! Ted Landry Windows Vista Install & Setup 1 02-16-2007 04:57 PM
(",) Hello, I Have Good News! nice_reply_only@yahoo.com Customize Windows XP 0 01-27-2005 11:37 PM
Good News Reader? Marshall Apple Macintosh 8 08-19-2004 01:31 PM
XP help center latest news not working oldtimer Windows XP New Users 0 10-01-2003 12:25 AM