Latest security updates

I see that you are co-author of a book on the subject of security, so perhaps
I should not be surprised at your unequivocal advice to leave them on.
That's OK, but leaving them on without some fix is not an option, since the
machine is useless without reasonable access to the Internet. You know well
that the fact that the programs cause no difficulty on your machines does
not mean that the probllem is some failure or unusual usage or behavior on my
part. The machine is a new HP; works fine; I've added nothing to Explorer,
nor any rare, remarkable other software.
Two possibilities seem likely: 1, something about the way the updates were
installed by the the auto-install system may affect their operability.
2. My basic security programs may interfere with the updated Vista security
programs.
A message on this forum that I'm unable to relocate at the moment reported
that he had to uninstall the latest two security updates that arrived via
auto-update, and then manually reinstall them before they stopped interfering
with his Internet access. (How does one avoid the install shield?)
My experience with the slowdowns to all facets of operation on earlier
machines (with Windows 98 and Windows XP) _provably_ caused by the Norton
security suite led me to remove the Norton suite from all my machines, and
substitute the Computer Associates CA suite, which did not share that Norton
disadvantage.
The third possibility is that multiple firewall programs running
simultaneously had something to do with the problem (though it didn't
interfere noticeaably until the latest security updates were installed.) The
router has a buit-in firewall, Vista has its own firewall, and the CA suite
does, too. To solve this, I've now disabled the Windows and CA firewalls, and
rely on the router. (but I haven't yet reinstalled the latest two security
updates.) Neither I nor any other computer user can afford to change all his
security systems every tiime there is a conflict between them and the latest
security update from Microsoft.
One has to balance the risk of security invasions against spending too great
a portion of the available time on system upkeep, as opposed to the other
useful work for which one keeps and operates the machines. It might help if
there were sime measure of the danger and risk for which the security
measures were devised.

Your comments?
--
kreinerh


"Jesper" wrote:

> Those updates are important. You should leave them on.
>
> I cannot see that behavior here on two computers that have them. Are you
> using Internet Explorer? Can you explain *exactly* what you are doing? Do you
> have any third-party add-ins installed in Internet Explorer, or some other
> third-party software, such as security software, that could be interfering
> with your network connectivity?
> ---
> Your question may already be answered in Windows Vista Security:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047...otectyourwi-20
>
>
> "kreinerh" wrote:
>

> > This morning, my Vista machine reported receiving a group of Microsoft
> > updates, including two Security updates. I then found that connecting to the
> > internet was virtually impossible. My XP machine had no trouble making the
> > connection, but the Vista machine appeared to be hgaving a hard time, taking
> > minutes to even reach the home page. I uninstalled the two security updates,
> > and restored my ability to get to the internet. Just how important can those
> > security updates be?
> > --
> > kreinerh

Hi kreinerh,

Check your firewall configuration. Make sure that the following executables
are allowed in the firewall - iexplore.exe and WinMail.exe. These should be
set to 'Always Allow' or the equivalent, depending on your firewall. Check
your manual for details.
Dwarf

"Jesper" wrote:

> Those updates are important. You should leave them on.
>
> I cannot see that behavior here on two computers that have them. Are you
> using Internet Explorer? Can you explain *exactly* what you are doing? Do you
> have any third-party add-ins installed in Internet Explorer, or some other
> third-party software, such as security software, that could be interfering
> with your network connectivity?
> ---
> Your question may already be answered in Windows Vista Security:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047...otectyourwi-20
>
>
> "kreinerh" wrote:
>

> > This morning, my Vista machine reported receiving a group of Microsoft
> > updates, including two Security updates. I then found that connecting to the
> > internet was virtually impossible. My XP machine had no trouble making the
> > connection, but the Vista machine appeared to be hgaving a hard time, taking
> > minutes to even reach the home page. I uninstalled the two security updates,
> > and restored my ability to get to the internet. Just how important can those
> > security updates be?
> > --
> > kreinerh

It is almost certainly the fact that you have two firewalls on the computer
that is interfering. Please disable either the CA firewall or the Windows
firewall and then try with the updates installed. Running two firewalls on
the same computer is always a recipe for problems. The firewall on the router
is not a problem, so you can leave that one on. However, one of these updates
affects the networking stack on your computer so it is very likely that it is
having problems with the firewall. In fact, I would go so far as to say that
it is very likely that it is causing problems with the CA firewall. If you
can verify that the CA firewall is incompatible with that update I know some
people who would be very, very interested.

I want you to install them not only because they are needed, but becasue if
they do not work properly, Microsoft needs to be notified so they can do
something about it.
---
Your question may already be answered in Windows Vista Security:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047...otectyourwi-20


"kreinerh" wrote:

> I see that you are co-author of a book on the subject of security, so perhaps
> I should not be surprised at your unequivocal advice to leave them on.
> That's OK, but leaving them on without some fix is not an option, since the
> machine is useless without reasonable access to the Internet. You know well
> that the fact that the programs cause no difficulty on your machines does
> not mean that the probllem is some failure or unusual usage or behavior on my
> part. The machine is a new HP; works fine; I've added nothing to Explorer,
> nor any rare, remarkable other software.
> Two possibilities seem likely: 1, something about the way the updates were
> installed by the the auto-install system may affect their operability.
> 2. My basic security programs may interfere with the updated Vista security
> programs.
> A message on this forum that I'm unable to relocate at the moment reported
> that he had to uninstall the latest two security updates that arrived via
> auto-update, and then manually reinstall them before they stopped interfering
> with his Internet access. (How does one avoid the install shield?)
> My experience with the slowdowns to all facets of operation on earlier
> machines (with Windows 98 and Windows XP) _provably_ caused by the Norton
> security suite led me to remove the Norton suite from all my machines, and
> substitute the Computer Associates CA suite, which did not share that Norton
> disadvantage.
> The third possibility is that multiple firewall programs running
> simultaneously had something to do with the problem (though it didn't
> interfere noticeaably until the latest security updates were installed.) The
> router has a buit-in firewall, Vista has its own firewall, and the CA suite
> does, too. To solve this, I've now disabled the Windows and CA firewalls, and
> rely on the router. (but I haven't yet reinstalled the latest two security
> updates.) Neither I nor any other computer user can afford to change all his
> security systems every tiime there is a conflict between them and the latest
> security update from Microsoft.
> One has to balance the risk of security invasions against spending too great
> a portion of the available time on system upkeep, as opposed to the other
> useful work for which one keeps and operates the machines. It might help if
> there were sime measure of the danger and risk for which the security
> measures were devised.
>
> Your comments?
> --
> kreinerh
>
>
> "Jesper" wrote:
>

> > Those updates are important. You should leave them on.
> >
> > I cannot see that behavior here on two computers that have them. Are you
> > using Internet Explorer? Can you explain *exactly* what you are doing? Do you
> > have any third-party add-ins installed in Internet Explorer, or some other
> > third-party software, such as security software, that could be interfering
> > with your network connectivity?
> > ---
> > Your question may already be answered in Windows Vista Security:
> > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047...otectyourwi-20
> >
> >
> > "kreinerh" wrote:
> >

> > > This morning, my Vista machine reported receiving a group of Microsoft
> > > updates, including two Security updates. I then found that connecting to the
> > > internet was virtually impossible. My XP machine had no trouble making the
> > > connection, but the Vista machine appeared to be hgaving a hard time, taking
> > > minutes to even reach the home page. I uninstalled the two security updates,
> > > and restored my ability to get to the internet. Just how important can those
> > > security updates be?
> > > --
> > > kreinerh

I'm not an author of a book on Vista and I too say leave them on.

Every month the interaction of a third party firewall and IE7 is legendary.

Do yourself a HUGE favor and use the built in firewall and then get a
Linksys router to be your external firewall.

Or optionally, drop the firewall as you install the patches and then
bring it back up.

Not a month that goes by that Zone Alarm, Comodo or other third party
firewalls cannot get their ability to sense the changes on the system
and work properly.

kreinerh wrote:

> I see that you are co-author of a book on the subject of security, so perhaps
> I should not be surprised at your unequivocal advice to leave them on.
> That's OK, but leaving them on without some fix is not an option, since the
> machine is useless without reasonable access to the Internet. You know well
> that the fact that the programs cause no difficulty on your machines does
> not mean that the probllem is some failure or unusual usage or behavior on my
> part. The machine is a new HP; works fine; I've added nothing to Explorer,
> nor any rare, remarkable other software.
> Two possibilities seem likely: 1, something about the way the updates were
> installed by the the auto-install system may affect their operability.
> 2. My basic security programs may interfere with the updated Vista security
> programs.
> A message on this forum that I'm unable to relocate at the moment reported
> that he had to uninstall the latest two security updates that arrived via
> auto-update, and then manually reinstall them before they stopped interfering
> with his Internet access. (How does one avoid the install shield?)
> My experience with the slowdowns to all facets of operation on earlier
> machines (with Windows 98 and Windows XP) _provably_ caused by the Norton
> security suite led me to remove the Norton suite from all my machines, and
> substitute the Computer Associates CA suite, which did not share that Norton
> disadvantage.
> The third possibility is that multiple firewall programs running
> simultaneously had something to do with the problem (though it didn't
> interfere noticeaably until the latest security updates were installed.) The
> router has a buit-in firewall, Vista has its own firewall, and the CA suite
> does, too. To solve this, I've now disabled the Windows and CA firewalls, and
> rely on the router. (but I haven't yet reinstalled the latest two security
> updates.) Neither I nor any other computer user can afford to change all his
> security systems every tiime there is a conflict between them and the latest
> security update from Microsoft.
> One has to balance the risk of security invasions against spending too great
> a portion of the available time on system upkeep, as opposed to the other
> useful work for which one keeps and operates the machines. It might help if
> there were sime measure of the danger and risk for which the security
> measures were devised.
>
> Your comments?

Jesper wrote:

> ---
> Your question may already be answered in Windows Vista Security:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047...otectyourwi-20
>

Good advice! Buy a $27 book that maybe has a solution to your problem.

This morning, I began to try to reinstall the two security updates that I had
uninstalled after they were installed by auto-update. I checked on the file
IDs and went to the list of available downloads, and located the information
for KB941644 and KB943411. The one that seemed most likely to have caused the
problem with Internet access was KB943411, (KB941644 applies to a Sidebar
problem, which probably accounts for the Sidebar anomalies that appeared
after it was first downloaded). The KB943411 patch apparently exists in two
configurations, one for 32 bit systems and the other for 64 bit systems. My
system is a 32 bit system with Windows Home Vista Premium, which is what the
file description says is the intended target for the patch. I started the
download, for Windows6.0-KB943411-X86, which stopped with the error
message:"This file is not applicable to your system." That seems to put a
stop to the effort for the moment, but raises a question about how
auto-update managed to get it installed,and why the file can't be downloaded
now.
--
kreinerh


"Jesper" wrote:

> It is almost certainly the fact that you have two firewalls on the computer
> that is interfering. Please disable either the CA firewall or the Windows
> firewall and then try with the updates installed. Running two firewalls on
> the same computer is always a recipe for problems. The firewall on the router
> is not a problem, so you can leave that one on. However, one of these updates
> affects the networking stack on your computer so it is very likely that it is
> having problems with the firewall. In fact, I would go so far as to say that
> it is very likely that it is causing problems with the CA firewall. If you
> can verify that the CA firewall is incompatible with that update I know some
> people who would be very, very interested.
>
> I want you to install them not only because they are needed, but becasue if
> they do not work properly, Microsoft needs to be notified so they can do
> something about it.
> ---
> Your question may already be answered in Windows Vista Security:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047...otectyourwi-20
>
>
> "kreinerh" wrote:
>

> > I see that you are co-author of a book on the subject of security, so perhaps
> > I should not be surprised at your unequivocal advice to leave them on.
> > That's OK, but leaving them on without some fix is not an option, since the
> > machine is useless without reasonable access to the Internet. You know well
> > that the fact that the programs cause no difficulty on your machines does
> > not mean that the probllem is some failure or unusual usage or behavior on my
> > part. The machine is a new HP; works fine; I've added nothing to Explorer,
> > nor any rare, remarkable other software.
> > Two possibilities seem likely: 1, something about the way the updates were
> > installed by the the auto-install system may affect their operability.
> > 2. My basic security programs may interfere with the updated Vista security
> > programs.
> > A message on this forum that I'm unable to relocate at the moment reported
> > that he had to uninstall the latest two security updates that arrived via
> > auto-update, and then manually reinstall them before they stopped interfering
> > with his Internet access. (How does one avoid the install shield?)
> > My experience with the slowdowns to all facets of operation on earlier
> > machines (with Windows 98 and Windows XP) _provably_ caused by the Norton
> > security suite led me to remove the Norton suite from all my machines, and
> > substitute the Computer Associates CA suite, which did not share that Norton
> > disadvantage.
> > The third possibility is that multiple firewall programs running
> > simultaneously had something to do with the problem (though it didn't
> > interfere noticeaably until the latest security updates were installed.) The
> > router has a buit-in firewall, Vista has its own firewall, and the CA suite
> > does, too. To solve this, I've now disabled the Windows and CA firewalls, and
> > rely on the router. (but I haven't yet reinstalled the latest two security
> > updates.) Neither I nor any other computer user can afford to change all his
> > security systems every tiime there is a conflict between them and the latest
> > security update from Microsoft.
> > One has to balance the risk of security invasions against spending too great
> > a portion of the available time on system upkeep, as opposed to the other
> > useful work for which one keeps and operates the machines. It might help if
> > there were sime measure of the danger and risk for which the security
> > measures were devised.
> >
> > Your comments?
> > --
> > kreinerh
> >
> >
> > "Jesper" wrote:
> >

> > > Those updates are important. You should leave them on.
> > >
> > > I cannot see that behavior here on two computers that have them. Are you
> > > using Internet Explorer? Can you explain *exactly* what you are doing? Do you
> > > have any third-party add-ins installed in Internet Explorer, or some other
> > > third-party software, such as security software, that could be interfering
> > > with your network connectivity?
> > > ---
> > > Your question may already be answered in Windows Vista Security:
> > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047...otectyourwi-20
> > >
> > >
> > > "kreinerh" wrote:
> > >
> > > > This morning, my Vista machine reported receiving a group of Microsoft
> > > > updates, including two Security updates. I then found that connecting to the
> > > > internet was virtually impossible. My XP machine had no trouble making the
> > > > connection, but the Vista machine appeared to be hgaving a hard time, taking
> > > > minutes to even reach the home page. I uninstalled the two security updates,
> > > > and restored my ability to get to the internet. Just how important can those
> > > > security updates be?
> > > > --
> > > > kreinerh

I forgot to mention in my last post, that on checking back, I found that I
had only the CA firewall active (along with the router firewall) at the time
of the auto-update. That does seem to confirm that there is a conflict
between the patch that was installed and the CA firewall.
--
kreinerh


"Jesper" wrote:

> It is almost certainly the fact that you have two firewalls on the computer
> that is interfering. Please disable either the CA firewall or the Windows
> firewall and then try with the updates installed. Running two firewalls on
> the same computer is always a recipe for problems. The firewall on the router
> is not a problem, so you can leave that one on. However, one of these updates
> affects the networking stack on your computer so it is very likely that it is
> having problems with the firewall. In fact, I would go so far as to say that
> it is very likely that it is causing problems with the CA firewall. If you
> can verify that the CA firewall is incompatible with that update I know some
> people who would be very, very interested.
>
> I want you to install them not only because they are needed, but becasue if
> they do not work properly, Microsoft needs to be notified so they can do
> something about it.
> ---
> Your question may already be answered in Windows Vista Security:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047...otectyourwi-20
>
>
> "kreinerh" wrote:
>

> > I see that you are co-author of a book on the subject of security, so perhaps
> > I should not be surprised at your unequivocal advice to leave them on.
> > That's OK, but leaving them on without some fix is not an option, since the
> > machine is useless without reasonable access to the Internet. You know well
> > that the fact that the programs cause no difficulty on your machines does
> > not mean that the probllem is some failure or unusual usage or behavior on my
> > part. The machine is a new HP; works fine; I've added nothing to Explorer,
> > nor any rare, remarkable other software.
> > Two possibilities seem likely: 1, something about the way the updates were
> > installed by the the auto-install system may affect their operability.
> > 2. My basic security programs may interfere with the updated Vista security
> > programs.
> > A message on this forum that I'm unable to relocate at the moment reported
> > that he had to uninstall the latest two security updates that arrived via
> > auto-update, and then manually reinstall them before they stopped interfering
> > with his Internet access. (How does one avoid the install shield?)
> > My experience with the slowdowns to all facets of operation on earlier
> > machines (with Windows 98 and Windows XP) _provably_ caused by the Norton
> > security suite led me to remove the Norton suite from all my machines, and
> > substitute the Computer Associates CA suite, which did not share that Norton
> > disadvantage.
> > The third possibility is that multiple firewall programs running
> > simultaneously had something to do with the problem (though it didn't
> > interfere noticeaably until the latest security updates were installed.) The
> > router has a buit-in firewall, Vista has its own firewall, and the CA suite
> > does, too. To solve this, I've now disabled the Windows and CA firewalls, and
> > rely on the router. (but I haven't yet reinstalled the latest two security
> > updates.) Neither I nor any other computer user can afford to change all his
> > security systems every tiime there is a conflict between them and the latest
> > security update from Microsoft.
> > One has to balance the risk of security invasions against spending too great
> > a portion of the available time on system upkeep, as opposed to the other
> > useful work for which one keeps and operates the machines. It might help if
> > there were sime measure of the danger and risk for which the security
> > measures were devised.
> >
> > Your comments?
> > --
> > kreinerh
> >
> >
> > "Jesper" wrote:
> >

> > > Those updates are important. You should leave them on.
> > >
> > > I cannot see that behavior here on two computers that have them. Are you
> > > using Internet Explorer? Can you explain *exactly* what you are doing? Do you
> > > have any third-party add-ins installed in Internet Explorer, or some other
> > > third-party software, such as security software, that could be interfering
> > > with your network connectivity?
> > > ---
> > > Your question may already be answered in Windows Vista Security:
> > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047...otectyourwi-20
> > >
> > >
> > > "kreinerh" wrote:
> > >
> > > > This morning, my Vista machine reported receiving a group of Microsoft
> > > > updates, including two Security updates. I then found that connecting to the
> > > > internet was virtually impossible. My XP machine had no trouble making the
> > > > connection, but the Vista machine appeared to be hgaving a hard time, taking
> > > > minutes to even reach the home page. I uninstalled the two security updates,
> > > > and restored my ability to get to the internet. Just how important can those
> > > > security updates be?
> > > > --
> > > > kreinerh

On Jan 13, 12:25*am, kreinerh <krein...@discussions.microsoft.com>
wrote:

> This morning, I began to try to reinstall the two security updates that I had
> uninstalled after they were installed by auto-update. I checked on the file
> IDs and went to the list of available downloads, and located the information
> for KB941644 and KB943411. The one that seemed most likely to have caused the
> problem with Internet access was KB943411, (KB941644 applies to a Sidebar
> problem, which probably accounts for the Sidebar anomalies that appeared
> after it was first downloaded). The KB943411 patch apparently exists in two
> configurations, one for 32 bit systems and the other for 64 bit systems. My
> system is a 32 bit system with Windows Home Vista Premium, which is what the
> file description says is the intended target for the patch. I started the
> download, for Windows6.0-KB943411-X86, which stopped with the error
> message:"This file is not applicable to your system." That seems to put a
> stop to the effort for the moment, but raises a question about how
> auto-update managed to get it installed,and why the file can't be downloaded
> now.
> --
> kreinerh"Jesper" wrote:

> > It is almost certainly the fact that you have two firewalls on the computer
> > that is interfering. Please disable either the CA firewall or the Windows
> > firewall and then try with the updates installed. Running two firewalls on
> > the same computer is always a recipe for problems. The firewall on the router
> > is not a problem, so you can leave that one on. However, one of these updates
> > affects the networking stack on your computer so it is very likely that it is
> > having problems with the firewall. In fact, I would go so far as to say that
> > it is very likely that it is causing problems with the CA firewall. If you
> > can verify that the CA firewall is incompatible with that update I know some
> > people who would be very, very interested.

>

> > I want you to install them not only because they are needed, but becasueif
> > they do not work properly, Microsoft needs to be notified so they can do
> > something about it.
> > ---
> > Your question may already be answered in Windows Vista Security:
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047...otectyourwi-20

>

> > "kreinerh" wrote:

>

> > > I see that you are co-author of a book on the subject of security, so perhaps
> > > I should not be surprised at your unequivocal advice to leave them on.*
> > > That's OK, but leaving them on without some fix is not an option, since the
> > > machine is useless without reasonable access to the Internet. *You know well
> > > that the fact that the *programs cause no difficulty on your machines does
> > > not mean that the probllem is some failure or unusual usage or behavior on my
> > > part. The machine is a new HP; works fine; I've added nothing to Explorer,
> > > nor any rare, remarkable other software.
> > > Two possibilities seem likely: 1, something about the way the updates were
> > > installed by the the auto-install system may affect their operability.
> > > 2. My basic security programs may interfere with the updated Vista security
> > > programs.
> > > A message on this forum that I'm unable to relocate at the moment reported
> > > that he had to uninstall the latest two security updates that arrived via
> > > auto-update, and then manually reinstall them before they stopped interfering
> > > with his Internet access. (How does one avoid the install shield?)
> > > My *experience with the slowdowns to all facets of operation on earlier
> > > machines (with Windows 98 and Windows XP) _provably_ caused by the Norton
> > > security suite led me to remove the Norton suite from all my machines,and
> > > substitute the Computer Associates CA suite, which did not share that Norton
> > > disadvantage.
> > > The third possibility is that multiple firewall programs running
> > > simultaneously had something to do with the problem (though it didn't
> > > interfere noticeaably until the latest security updates were installed..) The
> > > router has a buit-in firewall, Vista has its own firewall, and the CA suite
> > > does, too. To solve this, I've now disabled the Windows and CA firewalls, and
> > > rely on the router. (but I haven't yet reinstalled the latest two security
> > > updates.) Neither I nor any other computer user can afford to change all his
> > > security systems every tiime there is a conflict between them and the latest
> > > security update from Microsoft.
> > > One has to balance the risk of security invasions against spending toogreat
> > > a portion of the available time on system upkeep, as opposed to the other
> > > useful work for which one keeps and operates the machines. It might help if
> > > there were sime measure of the danger and risk for which the security
> > > measures were devised.

>

> > > Your comments?
> > > --
> > > kreinerh

>

> > > "Jesper" wrote:

>

> > > > Those updates are important. You should leave them on.

>

> > > > I cannot see that behavior here on two computers that have them. Areyou
> > > > using Internet Explorer? Can you explain *exactly* what you are doing? Do you
> > > > have any third-party add-ins installed in Internet Explorer, or someother
> > > > third-party software, such as security software, that could be interfering
> > > > with your network connectivity?
> > > > ---
> > > > Your question may already be answered in Windows Vista Security:
> > > >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047...otectyourwi-20

>

> > > > "kreinerh" wrote:

>

> > > > > This morning, my Vista machine reported receiving a group of Microsoft
> > > > > updates, including two Security updates. I then found that connecting to the
> > > > > internet was virtually impossible. My XP machine had no trouble making the
> > > > > connection, but the Vista machine appeared to be hgaving a hard time, taking
> > > > > minutes to even reach the home page. I uninstalled the two security updates,
> > > > > and restored my ability to *get to the internet. Just how important can those
> > > > > security updates be?
> > > > > --
> > > > > kreinerh

I have the same issue with my new laptop, since the new updates - i am
unable to connect to the internet, yet I am still connected to my
wireless network. I only have Norton's on.