Alun Jones
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: MS dumps Vista.
Posted: 11-04-2008, 05:22 PM
"SCSIraidGURU" <guest@unknown-email.com> wrote in message
news:af0bcd3af693656120fec5266f7b27d0@nntp-gateway.com...
>
> Vista did not catch on in the corporate world because much of our
> software requires the workstation user to have administrator rights and
> power user access to databases to function. They have not rewritten
> their products around Vista.
May I paraphrase?

Vista did not catch on in the corporate world, because businesses don't
actually have enough clout as customers to require software vendors to
change their software to work with the prevailing security best practice of
requesting and requiring the least privileges necessary to do the job.

Instead of saying "do I need to open this file for reading or for writing",
programmers have been comfortable with saying "ah, screw it, let's open it
for reading, writing, deleting, any operation whatsoever, just in case I
might need them". It's like going to get a driver's licence and requesting a
hunting and fishing licence because you're there, and one day you might need
it. Then along comes Vista, and says "you can get a driver's licence here,
but you have to go get a hunting licence licence in order to get a hunting
licence."

So, instead of saying "well, maybe I don't need a hunting licence, I've
never used it before and have no plans to do so", the programmers turned
around and said "you need to tell City Hall to remove this limit, because we
refuse to consider whether we might want a hunting licence some day".

Ironically, Microsoft has been telling developers for over a decade that
they should quit acting as if their programs will always run as
administrator. Nobody (including other Microsoft developers) expected them
to place limits in the operating system to make that requirement serious.
Now that it's happened, instead of spending time to do the right thing,
developers are telling users "just disable security, so we don't have to
work so hard".

Alun.
~~~~
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Kevin Provance
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Posts: n/a
 
Re: MS dumps Vista.
Posted: 11-04-2008, 06:01 PM
Is that the best you have Jack (Off) the (Male) (St)Ripper?

I do so despise spatting weith unintellectual individuals.

"Jack the Ripper" <Jack@Ripper.com> wrote in message
news:%23txwVLnPJHA.2392@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| Ken Halter wrote:
| > "Kevin Provance" <kevin@remove_tpasoft_remove.com> wrote in message
|
| You both should make sure that you wash and wipe each other's behinds
| before you pucker-up and kiss them. Two *clowns* pi$$ing in the wind.


Steve Thackery
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Posts: n/a
 
Re: MS dumps Vista.
Posted: 11-04-2008, 07:19 PM
> Ironically, Microsoft has been telling developers for over a decade that
> they should quit acting as if their programs will always run as
> administrator.
Yes, for years. And to be fair, the programming guidelines in Vista are the
same as those in XP. It's just that Vista enforces them, whereas XP didn't.

That's a plus point for Vista, not a minus point.
> Now that it's happened, instead of spending time to do the right thing,
> developers are telling users "just disable security, so we don't have to
> work so hard".
Indeed they are. It is very worrying how many "experts" hereabouts are
advising people to disable UAC. This is nuts. It's solving the wrong
problem.

Once a machine is correctly set up, with compatible software, the only UAC
prompts you get are when you're doing administrative tasks, and it's quite
right you should get an "Are you sure?" prompt. That's what happens in
Linux and Mac OSX.

If people are plagued with UAC prompts, they're using non-compliant software
or using their computer in a really weird way.

SteveT

Ken Halter
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: MS dumps Vista.
Posted: 11-05-2008, 04:26 AM
"Kevin Provance" <kevin@remove_tpasoft_remove.com> wrote in message
news:eIpUfdqPJHA.1160@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Is that the best you have Jack (Off) the (Male) (St)Ripper?
>
> I do so despise spatting weith unintellectual individuals.
Maybe it's Jack the Dripper <g> Either way, you're right. Kids these days,
eh?


Bill McCarthy
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: MS dumps Vista.
Posted: 11-05-2008, 04:33 AM

"Ken Halter" <Ken_Halter@Use_Sparingly_Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OD5NW5vPJHA.3884@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> "Kevin Provance" <kevin@remove_tpasoft_remove.com> wrote in message
> news:eIpUfdqPJHA.1160@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> Is that the best you have Jack (Off) the (Male) (St)Ripper?
>>
>> I do so despise spatting weith unintellectual individuals.
>
> Maybe it's Jack the Dripper <g> Either way, you're right. Kids these days,
> eh?

Well well well... looksee here.. if it aint Kevin and Ken at it yet again.
Grow up guys, you're acting like a bunch of eight year olds.

Kevin Provance
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: MS dumps Vista.
Posted: 11-05-2008, 06:09 AM
FO Bill, your kind isn't welcome. This is *my* group.


"Bill McCarthy" <Bill@localhost.com> wrote in message
news:uJc$y%23vPJHA.1516@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
|
| "Ken Halter" <Ken_Halter@Use_Sparingly_Hotmail.com> wrote in message
| news:OD5NW5vPJHA.3884@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
| > "Kevin Provance" <kevin@remove_tpasoft_remove.com> wrote in message
| > news:eIpUfdqPJHA.1160@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
| >> Is that the best you have Jack (Off) the (Male) (St)Ripper?
| >>
| >> I do so despise spatting weith unintellectual individuals.
| >
| > Maybe it's Jack the Dripper <g> Either way, you're right. Kids these
days,
| > eh?
|
|
| Well well well... looksee here.. if it aint Kevin and Ken at it yet again.
| Grow up guys, you're acting like a bunch of eight year olds.
|


Bill McCarthy
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: MS dumps Vista.
Posted: 11-05-2008, 06:57 AM

"Kevin Provance" <kevin@remove_tpasoft_remove.com> wrote in message
news:etDQY0wPJHA.1164@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> FO Bill, your kind isn't welcome. This is *my* group.
>
>
> "Bill McCarthy" <Bill@localhost.com> wrote in message
> news:uJc$y%23vPJHA.1516@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> |
> | "Ken Halter" <Ken_Halter@Use_Sparingly_Hotmail.com> wrote in message
> | news:OD5NW5vPJHA.3884@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> | > "Kevin Provance" <kevin@remove_tpasoft_remove.com> wrote in message
> | > news:eIpUfdqPJHA.1160@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> | >> Is that the best you have Jack (Off) the (Male) (St)Ripper?
> | >>
> | >> I do so despise spatting weith unintellectual individuals.
> | >
> | > Maybe it's Jack the Dripper <g> Either way, you're right. Kids these
> days,
> | > eh?
> |
> |
> | Well well well... looksee here.. if it aint Kevin and Ken at it yet
> again.
> | Grow up guys, you're acting like a bunch of eight year olds.
> |

quod erat demonstrandum


DevilsPGD
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Re: MS dumps Vista.
Posted: 11-05-2008, 10:05 AM

In message <A51E260C-6657-4D7B-A026-A41DC231B466@microsoft.com> "Alun
Jones" <alun@texis.invalid> was claimed to have wrote:
>Ironically, Microsoft has been telling developers for over a decade that
>they should quit acting as if their programs will always run as
>administrator. Nobody (including other Microsoft developers) expected them
>to place limits in the operating system to make that requirement serious.
>Now that it's happened, instead of spending time to do the right thing,
>developers are telling users "just disable security, so we don't have to
>work so hard".
The interesting part is that in the business world limited user has been
a common installation scenario, it's home users who nearly always ran as
Administrator.

The problem with Vista is that there really isn't one, it's largely just
different, which makes it tough to fix. It's got a higher deployment
rate then XP did this number of months from release, and many companies
are still replacing the last of their 2000 era OSes with XP/2003 era, so
expecting them to jump on Vista in the first year simply isn't feasible.

UAC is a pain, but it's less painful then running as a limited user
under XP since at least Windows' own internal tools are automatically
aware of the need to elevate. This is both a blessing and a curse
though, since some tools (MMC, regedit) always elevate when it's simply
not always needed, and conversely some tools (Explorer) cannot be
elevated at all even when it would be really handy to have a permanently
elevated window open.
 
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