Vista Beta 2 Installation?

I'm thinking there are a lot of people installing Vista Beta 2 that, maybe
shouldn't be.
Installing a new operating system can be a steep learning curve, especially
a beta.

You really think so, Steve?

"Steve" <noodle59@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:O8HXyEclGHA.1240@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> I'm thinking there are a lot of people installing Vista Beta 2 that, maybe
> shouldn't be.
> Installing a new operating system can be a steep learning curve,
> especially a beta.
>

Well, lets see. I must have performed a gazillion installs in my lifetime
with computers and still scares me.

"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
news:OpGE5SclGHA.2304@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> You really think so, Steve?
>
> "Steve" <noodle59@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:O8HXyEclGHA.1240@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>
>

As long as you accept the fact that THIS IS A BETA and prone to bugs and not
go whining and blaming others when it not perfect, I see it as a good way to
learn. If you don't do a good thourough back prior to install...You get
what you deserve. I have worked 10+ years in IT with no fomral education in
it and have been quite successful with my degree from the school of hard
knocks...

Cheers

-Greg

"Steve" <noodle59@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:O8HXyEclGHA.1240@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> I'm thinking there are a lot of people installing Vista Beta 2 that, maybe
> shouldn't be.
> Installing a new operating system can be a steep learning curve,
> especially a beta.
>

Steve,
I use to think Microsoft screened the "Beta" Testers.
Apparently not.... Seems to me they are passing the "Betas" out to anyone
that can download them.
If people would just research ( or at least read the instructions) on the
new Vista System before they jump head first into it, they might see some of
the possible obstructions to their "good intentions".
As a Technician and shop owner, I get several calls a day wanting advice
on "Fixing" their screw-ups. As a rule, I just tell them to either bring it
in or reformat and reinstall the original operating system.
Being in the business since '71, I (like your self) have seen a majority
of clean running systems destroyed by "OP's" trying to experiment. I think
there should be more limits on the Beta Downloads and that might at least
keep a lot of systems running.

"Steve" <noodle59@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:O8HXyEclGHA.1240@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> I'm thinking there are a lot of people installing Vista Beta 2 that, maybe
> shouldn't be.
> Installing a new operating system can be a steep learning curve,
> especially a beta.
>

Well the TechBeta and TAP programs certainly are by invitation. The public
Beta 2 is self-screening. What MS means by "Customer" in "Customer Preview
Program" is spelled out on GetReady and someone who aspires to fitting one
of those descriptions is free to do so. MS obviously accepted that large
numbers of folks who did not fit the description of "Customer" as defined by
the program would jump in anyway and that some would get burned. Experience
has probably shown them that these bunglers would work their way back out of
it and some would learn from it. I don't mind being here to facilitate all
of that as I do my own testing.

But this program is running true to form for an era in which a sense of
responsibility for the consequences of one's choices is largely missing. I
don't mind those who freely admit they screwed up. It is the ones who blame
MS or Vista or the neighbors dog for their computer being messed up that I
have no patience with.

"LS (V)" <lawrence(NoSpam)systems@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:%23rEh3dflGHA.3576@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> Steve,
> I use to think Microsoft screened the "Beta" Testers.
> Apparently not.... Seems to me they are passing the "Betas" out to anyone
> that can download them.
> If people would just research ( or at least read the instructions) on the
> new Vista System before they jump head first into it, they might see some
> of the possible obstructions to their "good intentions".
> As a Technician and shop owner, I get several calls a day wanting advice
> on "Fixing" their screw-ups. As a rule, I just tell them to either bring
> it in or reformat and reinstall the original operating system.
> Being in the business since '71, I (like your self) have seen a majority
> of clean running systems destroyed by "OP's" trying to experiment. I think
> there should be more limits on the Beta Downloads and that might at least
> keep a lot of systems running.
>
> "Steve" <noodle59@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:O8HXyEclGHA.1240@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>
>

Colin

I've been into computers since the transistor and 4/8 bit micropressor days
and did machine code programming.

I agree that there are obviously many people who are trying the beta that
have no idea what they're doing. They do not even have the savy to seach the
discussions to see if their problem has already been discussed. My hats off
to you guys for your patience in your answers. I always look to see if the
problems I have were addressed or a derivative of it so I can fix it my self
if possible. I try to look at problems from all angles before submitting it
as a problem to Microsoft.

I believe that part of Microsoft's agenda is to put pressure on hardware and
software vendors to get off the stick through customer requests.

Unfortunately, their are too many people trying it who think that this is
"free software" and Microsoft should answer all their problems. The same
people probably think this is a direct line to Microsoft instead of a
self-help group with different skill levels represented.
--
I''m Down the Tubes with the whales!


"Colin Barnhorst" wrote:

> Well the TechBeta and TAP programs certainly are by invitation. The public
> Beta 2 is self-screening. What MS means by "Customer" in "Customer Preview
> Program" is spelled out on GetReady and someone who aspires to fitting one
> of those descriptions is free to do so. MS obviously accepted that large
> numbers of folks who did not fit the description of "Customer" as defined by
> the program would jump in anyway and that some would get burned. Experience
> has probably shown them that these bunglers would work their way back out of
> it and some would learn from it. I don't mind being here to facilitate all
> of that as I do my own testing.
>
> But this program is running true to form for an era in which a sense of
> responsibility for the consequences of one's choices is largely missing. I
> don't mind those who freely admit they screwed up. It is the ones who blame
> MS or Vista or the neighbors dog for their computer being messed up that I
> have no patience with.
>
> "LS (V)" <lawrence(NoSpam)systems@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:%23rEh3dflGHA.3576@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>
>
>

I doubt that MS is using the program to pressure the partners, at least not
by generating pressure from irritated beta testers about missing drivers and
such, which I think you mean. Just the existance of the Customer Preview
Program is a sufficient wake-up call that release is approaching.

Since this is a beta program to benefit MS and not an early adoption program
to benefit users I do not see much justification for MS to provide support.
The bug reports and follow-ups are more important than any beta tester's
system getting fixed. The fixes may in fact backfire in future builds.

Yes, many do think that MS somehow closely monitors the ng's or that MS
experts are here to help them. In fact there are all kinds screwy
misimpressions about what ng's are for. Unfortunately, some also use it as
a blogging medium. I'm talking about the extremely long "my impression of
Vista" posts. Who here cares? Just the poster. Such posts offer no help
for other users and will never reach the Vista team who do collect
'sentiments,' as they call them.

Like you, I too wonder why folks with the skill sets I have seen in these
newsgroups would take the time to participate. In any other context their
time would earn them plenty of bucks. Of course the answer is compassion.

Hats off to the compassionate ones..

"rabuf" <rabuf@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:E8B4C322-A5DA-4811-9FA5-527ED3D6CD46@microsoft.com...

> Colin
>
> I've been into computers since the transistor and 4/8 bit micropressor
> days
> and did machine code programming.
>
> I agree that there are obviously many people who are trying the beta that
> have no idea what they're doing. They do not even have the savy to seach
> the
> discussions to see if their problem has already been discussed. My hats
> off
> to you guys for your patience in your answers. I always look to see if the
> problems I have were addressed or a derivative of it so I can fix it my
> self
> if possible. I try to look at problems from all angles before submitting
> it
> as a problem to Microsoft.
>
> I believe that part of Microsoft's agenda is to put pressure on hardware
> and
> software vendors to get off the stick through customer requests.
>
> Unfortunately, their are too many people trying it who think that this is
> "free software" and Microsoft should answer all their problems. The same
> people probably think this is a direct line to Microsoft instead of a
> self-help group with different skill levels represented.
> --
> I''m Down the Tubes with the whales!
>
>
> "Colin Barnhorst" wrote:
>

They do screen beta testers. If all of the testers were perfect they wouldnt
find the problems that the average user encounters. I have only been using
computers for a couple years with no training at all and I have been in the
beta testing program for about 1 year. I have been using the beta programs
very successfully. I use almost all the live beta's, office 2007, windows
defender and one care. I just installed Vista build 5384 and even though I
know that I will screw up a couple times my feedback helps make the programs
work. That is what beta is for.

"LS (V)" wrote:

> Steve,
> I use to think Microsoft screened the "Beta" Testers.
> Apparently not.... Seems to me they are passing the "Betas" out to anyone
> that can download them.
> If people would just research ( or at least read the instructions) on the
> new Vista System before they jump head first into it, they might see some of
> the possible obstructions to their "good intentions".
> As a Technician and shop owner, I get several calls a day wanting advice
> on "Fixing" their screw-ups. As a rule, I just tell them to either bring it
> in or reformat and reinstall the original operating system.
> Being in the business since '71, I (like your self) have seen a majority
> of clean running systems destroyed by "OP's" trying to experiment. I think
> there should be more limits on the Beta Downloads and that might at least
> keep a lot of systems running.
>
> "Steve" <noodle59@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:O8HXyEclGHA.1240@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>
>
>

But remember that the Customer Preview Program beta testers, unlike the
TechBeta Program beta testers, are completely unscreened. They go to
GetReady, request the download and key, wait for the email, and away they
go.

In spite of all that MS has to say on the subject on GetReady, a lot of
these folks are not thinking about beta testing but just trying to become
early adopters.

"dan brown" <danbrown@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:B8615D87-1F88-4F9C-8961-C6651B8C1B4C@microsoft.com...

> They do screen beta testers. If all of the testers were perfect they
> wouldnt
> find the problems that the average user encounters. I have only been using
> computers for a couple years with no training at all and I have been in
> the
> beta testing program for about 1 year. I have been using the beta programs
> very successfully. I use almost all the live beta's, office 2007, windows
> defender and one care. I just installed Vista build 5384 and even though
> I
> know that I will screw up a couple times my feedback helps make the
> programs
> work. That is what beta is for.
>
> "LS (V)" wrote:
>