What's the advantage of Windows Defender?

Not quite true.
Windows Defender is to help protect against spyware and neither anti
virus or firewall do that.
There are 4 things needed to help keep the computer secure.
1. Antivirus
2. Firewall
3. Anti spyware
4. Keep Windows up to date (Windows Update).
While there is some overlap, all 4 are intended to protect the
computer in different ways.
Since they protect for different problems, this is not "layered
protection"

Layered protection is more like a router adding another layer of
protection to the firewall.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"Mr. Arnold" <MR. Arnold@Arnold.com> wrote in message
news:e$BRVXuuHHA.3544@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>
> "Brian" <brianandlibby@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:eaWSKOuuHHA.3368@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>> Is it necessary to keep Windows Defender running if you've already
>> got a third-party antivirus and firewall running? Does Defender do
>> anything extra?

>
> No not really but some like to use the layered protection approach,
> in case a solution can be taken down by malware you have some
> backup,

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
news:utcm2kzuHHA.1184@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> Not quite true.

> Windows Defender is to help protect against spyware and neither anti virus
> or firewall do that.

> There are 4 things needed to help keep the computer secure.
> 1. Antivirus
> 2. Firewall

I agree with those two.

> 3. Anti spyware

I don't agree with that one, because all one has to do is not put his or
herself and the machine in that position to have it happen. I haven't used
any of it in years. All the stuff ever did was find cookies and the machine
cannot be attacked by cookies.

> 4. Keep Windows up to date (Windows Update).

I'll agree with that.

> While there is some overlap, all 4 are intended to protect the computer in
> different ways.
> Since they protect for different problems, this is not "layered
> protection"
>
> Layered protection is more like a router adding another layer of
> protection to the firewall.

I look at as anything that can be put on the machine to protect it for what
it's wroth.

The 5th element you left out is below.

But if he user doesn't have any common sense to practice safe hex, then
every last bit of it equals no protection.

The only thing that really protects against anything is the one sitting at
the wheel and doing the driving and using the proper tools, looking around
from time to time to see what's happening on the machine, because malware
can go around every last bit of it.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/klw1

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:27:39 -0400, "Mr. Arnold" <MR.
Arnold@Arnold.com> wrote:

>
> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
> news:utcm2kzuHHA.1184@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> > Not quite true.

>

> > Windows Defender is to help protect against spyware and neither anti virus
> > or firewall do that.

>

> > There are 4 things needed to help keep the computer secure.
> > 1. Antivirus
> > 2. Firewall

>
> I agree with those two.
>

> > 3. Anti spyware

>
> I don't agree with that one, because all one has to do is not put his or
> herself and the machine in that position to have it happen.

Although I agree with your point, I'm a belt and suspenders kind of
guy. Yes, you can largely avoid malware by practicing safe hex. But
none of us is perfect, and if we are tired, upset, in a hurry, etc.
it's very easy to let our guard down. My stance is that one should use
all the software protection available, but not simply rely on it.

Moreover, not everyone knows enough to protect himself without
software. Especially for people like that (and that's probably the
great majority of people) such software is essential.

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

hi brianda kamon acho

"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:27:39 -0400, "Mr. Arnold" <MR.
> Arnold@Arnold.com> wrote:
>

> >
> > "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
> > news:utcm2kzuHHA.1184@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> > > Not quite true.

> >

> > > Windows Defender is to help protect against spyware and neither anti virus
> > > or firewall do that.

> >

> > > There are 4 things needed to help keep the computer secure.
> > > 1. Antivirus
> > > 2. Firewall

> >
> > I agree with those two.
> >

> > > 3. Anti spyware

> >
> > I don't agree with that one, because all one has to do is not put his or
> > herself and the machine in that position to have it happen.

>
>
>
> Although I agree with your point, I'm a belt and suspenders kind of
> guy. Yes, you can largely avoid malware by practicing safe hex. But
> none of us is perfect, and if we are tired, upset, in a hurry, etc.
> it's very easy to let our guard down. My stance is that one should use
> all the software protection available, but not simply rely on it.
>
> Moreover, not everyone knows enough to protect himself without
> software. Especially for people like that (and that's probably the
> great majority of people) such software is essential.
>
> --
> Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
> Please Reply to the Newsgroup
>

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:27:39 -0400, "Mr. Arnold" <MR.

>"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message

>> Not quite true.

>

>> Windows Defender is to help protect against spyware and neither anti virus
>> or firewall do that.

>

>> There are 4 things needed to help keep the computer secure.
>> 1. Antivirus
>> 2. Firewall

>
>I agree with those two.
>

>> 3. Anti spyware

>
>I don't agree with that one, because all one has to do is not put his or
>herself and the machine in that position to have it happen. I haven't used
>any of it in years. All the stuff ever did was find cookies and the machine
>cannot be attacked by cookies.

I'm begining to agree with this less and less, as the line between
"nice" commercial malware and "nasty" traditional malware gets
blurred. Traditional av still often ignores commercial malware, which
is often no longer pretending to be "legit" (and thus easy to avoid or
remove), so the risk is increasing.

I still don't like to add an active "underfootware" scanner that does
what av does, but I would retain Defender, and to that I would add
Spyware Blaster. The latter does not run all the time, but confers
"static" protection by populating Restricted Zone, cookie kill-lists
etc. with entries for known "bad guys".

Note 1: There are 200+ fake "antispyware" apps out there, avoid them
all! Free "legit" ones include AdAware, Spybot, A-Squared and AVG
Antispyware (what used to be Ewido).

Note 2: At some point, and maybe still, some MS email apps would work
very slowly if there were "too many" entries in Restricted Zone, as
there would be if you actually USED this to block the large number of
malicious sites and banner URLs etc. that are out there.

>> 4. Keep Windows up to date (Windows Update).

>
>I'll agree with that.
>

>> While there is some overlap, all 4 are intended to protect the computer in
>> different ways.
>> Since they protect for different problems, this is not "layered
>> protection"
>>
>> Layered protection is more like a router adding another layer of
>> protection to the firewall.

>
>I look at as anything that can be put on the machine to protect it for what
>it's wroth.
>
>The 5th element you left out is below.
>
>But if he user doesn't have any common sense to practice safe hex, then
>every last bit of it equals no protection.
>
>The only thing that really protects against anything is the one sitting at
>the wheel and doing the driving and using the proper tools, looking around
>from time to time to see what's happening on the machine, because malware
>can go around every last bit of it.

Safe hex helps, but is undermined by unsafe UI (e.g. an Explorer that
hides file name .ext by default) and is bypassed by clickless attacks.

Most of the latter rely on exploitable code defects, hence the advice
to keep patched and use a firewall. But sometimes bad guys find and
use exploits before the good guys find and fix them, and sometimes a
yawning defect is left open because it "works as designed".

It can take YEARS to get a design defect fixed - just look at the age
of MS Office macro malware, starting before VBA and ending only quite
recently (well, becoming less common, at least).

Safe hex is like all these other tips; an essential part of defense,
but no substitute for a lack of any or all of the others.

>http://preview.tinyurl.com/klw1

Nice article :-)

>------------------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

I'm on a ten-year lunch break

>------------------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" <cquirkenews@nospam.mvps.org> wrote in
message news:5jrd83psclsmsdd51pmec24kbt2ugm4oom@4ax.com...

> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:27:39 -0400, "Mr. Arnold" <MR.

>>> 3. Anti spyware

>>
>>I don't agree with that one, because all one has to do is not put his or
>>herself and the machine in that position to have it happen. I haven't
>>used
>>any of it in years. All the stuff ever did was find cookies and the
>>machine
>>cannot be attacked by cookies.

>
> I'm begining to agree with this less and less, as the line between
> "nice" commercial malware and "nasty" traditional malware gets
> blurred. Traditional av still often ignores commercial malware, which
> is often no longer pretending to be "legit" (and thus easy to avoid or
> remove), so the risk is increasing.

> I still don't like to add an active "underfootware" scanner that does
> what av does, but I would retain Defender, and to that I would add
> Spyware Blaster. The latter does not run all the time, but confers
> "static" protection by populating Restricted Zone, cookie kill-lists
> etc. with entries for known "bad guys".
>
> Note 1: There are 200+ fake "antispyware" apps out there, avoid them
> all! Free "legit" ones include AdAware, Spybot, A-Squared and AVG
> Antispyware (what used to be Ewido).

But the machine has to be put at risk. If the machine is never put into a
risk position and one is aware of the risks, then running of those solutions
have no value, IMHO. But of course, one has to know what he or she is doing
in this area and know what those risks are to avoid the risks.

> Most of the latter rely on exploitable code defects, hence the advice
> to keep patched and use a firewall. But sometimes bad guys find and
> use exploits before the good guys find and fix them, and sometimes a
> yawning defect is left open because it "works as designed".

I am very aware, as I could turn bad guy with ease, since I have been
programming professionally since 1980. But I am a nice guy.

>
> It can take YEARS to get a design defect fixed - just look at the age
> of MS Office macro malware, starting before VBA and ending only quite
> recently (well, becoming less common, at least).
>
> Safe hex is like all these other tips; an essential part of defense,
> but no substitute for a lack of any or all of the others.

I think if you posted this into a Security and Firewall NG you may get a lot
of opposition about solutions like Ad-Aware, Spybot, WD, etc, etc.

If one knows how to protect and not to put the machine at risk, then for
someone like that, the solutions are of no value.

Hello, im new to this message thing, while trying to turn on my windows
defender i received a message that read: the pipe state is invalid" Does
anyone know what this means, in laments terms please...

"Mr. Arnold" wrote:

>
> "Brian" <brianandlibby@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:eaWSKOuuHHA.3368@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> > Is it necessary to keep Windows Defender running if you've already got a
> > third-party antivirus and firewall running? Does Defender do anything
> > extra?

>
> No not really but some like to use the layered protection approach, in case
> a solution can be taken down by malware you have some backup,
>
>

Dawn wrote:

> Hello, im new to this message thing, while trying to turn on my windows
> defender i received a message that read: the pipe state is invalid" Does
> anyone know what this means, in laments terms please...
>
> "Mr. Arnold" wrote:
>

>> "Brian" <brianandlibby@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:eaWSKOuuHHA.3368@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>>> Is it necessary to keep Windows Defender running if you've already got a
>>> third-party antivirus and firewall running? Does Defender do anything
>>> extra?

>> No not really but some like to use the layered protection approach, in case
>> a solution can be taken down by malware you have some backup,
>>

Try:

http://www.google.com/search?q=the+p...ient=firefox-a

Also, have you looked in the event logs? If you are having trouble
booting, try booting into Safe Mode..


--

Regards,
Hank Arnold
Microsoft MVP
Windows Server - Directory Services