Steve Cochran wrote:

> You can't use OE in WinMail unless you do it via Virtual PC or somesuch.
>
> I think the issue is the same as it was for OE in that there is no
> income brought in by OE or WinMail, so there is no priority to fix
> anything in it.
>
> I don't know that they are actively trying to force people to use WLMD
> this way, but the effect is the same.
>
> This lack of responsibility on their part drives away users and MVPs who
> attempt to support such users. Especially when those at MS are totally
> unresponsive to persistent requests from users and MVPs to correct, fix
> and improve the product, while instead they introduce new "features"
> that break previous functionality and other bugs that they refuse to fix
> in a timely manner.
>
> There is no feedback loop, as they totally ignore feedback.
>
> steve
>
> "Joel Silverman" <JoelSilverman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> message news:802AC1AD-EC74-4F10-BFAA-C29E6388794E@microsoft.com...

>> Your sick feeling might just be right, but actually Vista is turning
>> out to
>> be one sick feeling for me in general or possibly a sick joke from
>> Microsoft.
>> I get BSOD almost every time I resume from suspend. But, most of the
>> time I
>> get a hang when I shutdown. So I usually opt of a suspend and resume
>> crash
>> rather than a restart since it is actually a faster way to get to a
>> prompt.
>> Possibly the best solution is to go back to XP. I never had these
>> kinds of
>> problems with XP or OE. Has anyone moved back to OE after Windows Mail
>>
>> "Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM" wrote:
>>

>>> "Gary VanderMolen" <gary@NoMail.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:%23NqaKXJgHHA.4980@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>> >I take it back what I said about "corrective action."
>>> > I have a sick feeling that I now know the reason why MS is
>>> > stonewalling all the WinMail complaints. They will sit tight
>>> > until WLMD comes out of beta, then they'll say, "Oh, you
>>> > don't like Windows Mail? Switch to WLMD."
>>>
>>> I also think that's what's happening.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM
>>> http://www.fjsmjs.com
>>> Answer in newsgroup. Don't expect an answer to email.
>>>
>>>

>

I don't know why people don't vote with their feet...it's not like there
aren't any better free alternative email clients out there.
We all know WM is an abomination so why use it?

"Otto Normalverbraucher" <Otto@Normalverbraucher.com> wrote in message news:ZEsVh.17081$N94.12165@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...

>
> I don't know why people don't vote with their feet...it's not like there aren't any better free alternative email clients out
> there.
> We all know WM is an abomination so why use it?

Several reasons.
1. Some of us have a long history with OE, so we are reluctant to
abandon something that feels like an old friend.
2. WinMail's deficiencies really don't affect me all that much.
3. I have to support others who use WinMail, so it behooves me
to know its ins and outs.
--
Gary VanderMolen

I am having all these problems with a new designed for Vista PC that came
with Vista Ultimate installed and still have this terrible operation. There
must be something else wrong but I don't wnat to spend the next few weeks
trying ti find out what it is. From what you wrote I can move the mail back
to OE. It is good to know that I can go back to a system that has been much
more reliable than Vista.

"Otto Normalverbraucher" wrote:

> Joel Silverman wrote:

> > Your sick feeling might just be right, but actually Vista is turning out to
> > be one sick feeling for me in general or possibly a sick joke from Microsoft.
> > I get BSOD almost every time I resume from suspend. But, most of the time I
> > get a hang when I shutdown. So I usually opt of a suspend and resume crash
> > rather than a restart since it is actually a faster way to get to a prompt.
> > Possibly the best solution is to go back to XP. I never had these kinds of
> > problems with XP or OE. Has anyone moved back to OE after Windows Mail
> >
> > "Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM" wrote:
> >

> >> "Gary VanderMolen" <gary@NoMail.invalid> wrote in message
> >> news:%23NqaKXJgHHA.4980@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> >>> I take it back what I said about "corrective action."
> >>> I have a sick feeling that I now know the reason why MS is
> >>> stonewalling all the WinMail complaints. They will sit tight
> >>> until WLMD comes out of beta, then they'll say, "Oh, you
> >>> don't like Windows Mail? Switch to WLMD."
> >> I also think that's what's happening.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM
> >> http://www.fjsmjs.com
> >> Answer in newsgroup. Don't expect an answer to email.

>
> Yes you can just drag your email across as eml files into OE, I did this
> when I went back to XP temporarily.
> I now have a new laptop designed for Vista & it's very fast with no
> problems...much more reliable than XP IMO.
>
>

You can't use OE in WinMail unless you do it via Virtual PC or somesuch.

I think the issue is the same as it was for OE in that there is no income
brought in by OE or WinMail, so there is no priority to fix anything in it.

I don't know that they are actively trying to force people to use WLMD this
way, but the effect is the same.

This lack of responsibility on their part drives away users and MVPs who
attempt to support such users. Especially when those at MS are totally
unresponsive to persistent requests from users and MVPs to correct, fix and
improve the product, while instead they introduce new "features" that break
previous functionality and other bugs that they refuse to fix in a timely
manner.

There is no feedback loop, as they totally ignore feedback.

steve

"Joel Silverman" <JoelSilverman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:802AC1AD-EC74-4F10-BFAA-C29E6388794E@microsoft.com...

> Your sick feeling might just be right, but actually Vista is turning out
> to
> be one sick feeling for me in general or possibly a sick joke from
> Microsoft.
> I get BSOD almost every time I resume from suspend. But, most of the time
> I
> get a hang when I shutdown. So I usually opt of a suspend and resume
> crash
> rather than a restart since it is actually a faster way to get to a
> prompt.
> Possibly the best solution is to go back to XP. I never had these kinds of
> problems with XP or OE. Has anyone moved back to OE after Windows Mail
>
> "Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM" wrote:
>

>> "Gary VanderMolen" <gary@NoMail.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:%23NqaKXJgHHA.4980@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>> >I take it back what I said about "corrective action."
>> > I have a sick feeling that I now know the reason why MS is
>> > stonewalling all the WinMail complaints. They will sit tight
>> > until WLMD comes out of beta, then they'll say, "Oh, you
>> > don't like Windows Mail? Switch to WLMD."

>>
>> I also think that's what's happening.
>>
>> --
>> Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM
>> http://www.fjsmjs.com
>> Answer in newsgroup. Don't expect an answer to email.
>>
>>

Joel Silverman wrote:

> I am having all these problems with a new designed for Vista PC that came
> with Vista Ultimate installed and still have this terrible operation. There
> must be something else wrong but I don't wnat to spend the next few weeks
> trying ti find out what it is. From what you wrote I can move the mail back
> to OE. It is good to know that I can go back to a system that has been much
> more reliable than Vista.
>
> "Otto Normalverbraucher" wrote:
>

>> Joel Silverman wrote:

>>> Your sick feeling might just be right, but actually Vista is turning out to
>>> be one sick feeling for me in general or possibly a sick joke from Microsoft.
>>> I get BSOD almost every time I resume from suspend. But, most of the time I
>>> get a hang when I shutdown. So I usually opt of a suspend and resume crash
>>> rather than a restart since it is actually a faster way to get to a prompt.
>>> Possibly the best solution is to go back to XP. I never had these kinds of
>>> problems with XP or OE. Has anyone moved back to OE after Windows Mail
>>>
>>> "Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM" wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Gary VanderMolen" <gary@NoMail.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:%23NqaKXJgHHA.4980@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>> I take it back what I said about "corrective action."
>>>>> I have a sick feeling that I now know the reason why MS is
>>>>> stonewalling all the WinMail complaints. They will sit tight
>>>>> until WLMD comes out of beta, then they'll say, "Oh, you
>>>>> don't like Windows Mail? Switch to WLMD."
>>>> I also think that's what's happening.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM
>>>> http://www.fjsmjs.com
>>>> Answer in newsgroup. Don't expect an answer to email.

>> Yes you can just drag your email across as eml files into OE, I did this
>> when I went back to XP temporarily.
>> I now have a new laptop designed for Vista & it's very fast with no
>> problems...much more reliable than XP IMO.

I am using a standard copy of ultimate OEM though, not the pre-installed
copy of premium HP loaded on my laptop.
I started it once & was horrified by the amount of Pre-installed
rubbish, including Symantec software.
So I nuked the restore partition & loaded a clean copy.

Well your approach might be the way to go but I think that XP is probably
better choice. The more I use Vista Ultimate the more problems smack me in
the face. There are plenty of printers that don't have Vista drivers, Palm
still doesn't have quick installl working and this thing crashes all the
time. I think due to Check Point Secure ID but this also worked fine with XP.

"Otto Normalverbraucher" wrote:

> Joel Silverman wrote:

> > I am having all these problems with a new designed for Vista PC that came
> > with Vista Ultimate installed and still have this terrible operation. There
> > must be something else wrong but I don't wnat to spend the next few weeks
> > trying ti find out what it is. From what you wrote I can move the mail back
> > to OE. It is good to know that I can go back to a system that has been much
> > more reliable than Vista.
> >
> > "Otto Normalverbraucher" wrote:
> >

> >> Joel Silverman wrote:
> >>> Your sick feeling might just be right, but actually Vista is turning out to
> >>> be one sick feeling for me in general or possibly a sick joke from Microsoft.
> >>> I get BSOD almost every time I resume from suspend. But, most of the time I
> >>> get a hang when I shutdown. So I usually opt of a suspend and resume crash
> >>> rather than a restart since it is actually a faster way to get to a prompt.
> >>> Possibly the best solution is to go back to XP. I never had these kinds of
> >>> problems with XP or OE. Has anyone moved back to OE after Windows Mail
> >>>
> >>> "Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Gary VanderMolen" <gary@NoMail.invalid> wrote in message
> >>>> news:%23NqaKXJgHHA.4980@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> >>>>> I take it back what I said about "corrective action."
> >>>>> I have a sick feeling that I now know the reason why MS is
> >>>>> stonewalling all the WinMail complaints. They will sit tight
> >>>>> until WLMD comes out of beta, then they'll say, "Oh, you
> >>>>> don't like Windows Mail? Switch to WLMD."
> >>>> I also think that's what's happening.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM
> >>>> http://www.fjsmjs.com
> >>>> Answer in newsgroup. Don't expect an answer to email.
> >> Yes you can just drag your email across as eml files into OE, I did this
> >> when I went back to XP temporarily.
> >> I now have a new laptop designed for Vista & it's very fast with no
> >> problems...much more reliable than XP IMO.

>
> I am using a standard copy of ultimate OEM though, not the pre-installed
> copy of premium HP loaded on my laptop.
> I started it once & was horrified by the amount of Pre-installed
> rubbish, including Symantec software.
> So I nuked the restore partition & loaded a clean copy.
>

This is really bothering me too, I wish Microsoft would pay attention to our
discussions on these issues and come up with solutions.

One thing I just found out is when I am composing an email, it takes a while
to load,

Possible solution: one thing that worked for me faster was if I clicked
using the mouse into the text field, then the window would open right away to
allow me to compose.

Try this and let me know if this works for you. Other than that, WIndow
Mail sucks for accessing my contacts list too. I am sure there are plenty of
other issues to worry about, I can hardly wait for VISTA SERVER PACK 2!

"Paul H" wrote:

> Windows Mail is driving me crazy. I used OE on my XP Pro, with no problems.
> I successfully moved my folders to Windows Mail, and set up the accounts. No
> problem. But (a) When I click "Create Mail", I sometimes have to wait for up
> to a minute for the window, which does come up immediately, to change from
> "not responding" to a state that lets me begin to compose the email. Also,
> (b) After a spell check, OE remembered the words I told it to "Ignore all",
> but in Windows Mail every subsequent spell check in that email, including
> when I "Send" makes me deal with the same words again. Not "show-stoppers",
> but super annoying. I have Vista Home Premium on a very fast laptop. Anyone
> have a solution, or are these just bugs I have to live with until they are
> fixed? Thanks, Paul
>
>