WinXP Pro User Administrator Account vs The Administrator

I'm trying to understand the User Accounts better so that I can unclutter
and organize the WinXP Pro file structure. I am getting dizzy trying to
answer my question in WindowsXP InsideOut. It has good information but I
seem to be going around and around.

I have 3 User accounts:
Grandpa (renamed from 'Ken') (has a password of, say, 'pw')
Kids (new account)
Guests (new account)

Under C:\ I have the following folders:
Documents and Settings\Administrator\Administrator's Documents
Documents and Settings\All Users
Documents and Settings\Default User
Documents and Settings\Guest\Guest Documents
Documents and Settings\The Administrator\My Documents

Then under 'My Computer' I have:
Shared Documents
Guest's Documents
Grandpa's Documents

Then under 'Desktop' I have:
Terrie (a User Account that I had deleted)

Over time, I have saved files, installed programs, etc. and have information
in both the 'The Administrator' and the 'Grandpa folders.

When the computer boots, and goes to the Welcome screen, I can select
'Grandpa and it asks for my password of 'pw'. However, if I instead do
Ctl+Alt+Del twice to get the main (undeletable)Administrator account, it
also asks for the password and 'pw' works there also. *Question* Have I
somehow re-named the main (undeletable) Administrators account? Or, is the
'The Administrators' folder a 'User Name' (WindowsXP book talks about 'User
Name' and 'Full Name'?) I had put in there from long ago? I'm really
confused. Why two administrator account folders: 'Admiinistrator' and 'The
Administrator'?
Thanks for your help

Just went back and looked and found that:
The 'My Documents' folder under C:\Documents and Settings\The
Administrator contains the same sub folders as the 'My Documents' folder
under My Computer\Grandpa's Documents. So, the 'The Administrator' folder
(full name mentioned in Windows XP book, p.92?) must be the folder that
contains the User Name (user name mentioned in Windows XP book p.92?) of
'Grandpa' on the 'User Account' screen? Is this saying that I had, in the
past, made a user name of 'The Administrator' on the 'User Accounts' screen
and then renamed it, first to 'Ken' and then to 'Grandpa'? If this is the
case, is there a way to *safely* rename these folders so that everything has
the same name (for my sanity!)


"TK Norris" <tk norris at dot zianet.com> wrote in message
news:%23Ymii47zDHA.2460@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

> I'm trying to understand the User Accounts better so that I can unclutter
> and organize the WinXP Pro file structure. I am getting dizzy trying to
> answer my question in WindowsXP InsideOut. It has good information but I
> seem to be going around and around.
>
> I have 3 User accounts:
> Grandpa (renamed from 'Ken') (has a password of, say, 'pw')
> Kids (new account)
> Guests (new account)
>
> Under C:\ I have the following folders:
> Documents and Settings\Administrator\Administrator's Documents
> Documents and Settings\All Users
> Documents and Settings\Default User
> Documents and Settings\Guest\Guest Documents
> Documents and Settings\The Administrator\My Documents
>
> Then under 'My Computer' I have:
> Shared Documents
> Guest's Documents
> Grandpa's Documents
>
> Then under 'Desktop' I have:
> Terrie (a User Account that I had deleted)
>
> Over time, I have saved files, installed programs, etc. and have

information

> in both the 'The Administrator' and the 'Grandpa folders.
>
> When the computer boots, and goes to the Welcome screen, I can select
> 'Grandpa and it asks for my password of 'pw'. However, if I instead do
> Ctl+Alt+Del twice to get the main (undeletable)Administrator account, it
> also asks for the password and 'pw' works there also. *Question* Have I
> somehow re-named the main (undeletable) Administrators account? Or, is

the

> 'The Administrators' folder a 'User Name' (WindowsXP book talks about

'User

> Name' and 'Full Name'?) I had put in there from long ago? I'm really
> confused. Why two administrator account folders: 'Admiinistrator' and

'The

> Administrator'?
> Thanks for your help
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:02:44 -0700, TK Norris wrote:

> Just went back and looked and found that:
> The 'My Documents' folder under C:\Documents and Settings\The
> Administrator contains the same sub folders as the 'My Documents' folder
> under My Computer\Grandpa's Documents. So, the 'The Administrator' folder
> (full name mentioned in Windows XP book, p.92?) must be the folder that
> contains the User Name (user name mentioned in Windows XP book p.92?) of
> 'Grandpa' on the 'User Account' screen? Is this saying that I had, in the
> past, made a user name of 'The Administrator' on the 'User Accounts' screen
> and then renamed it, first to 'Ken' and then to 'Grandpa'? If this is the
> case, is there a way to *safely* rename these folders so that everything has
> the same name (for my sanity!)
>

The default account folders in XP are:

o The builtin administrator account (named simply Administrator). When you
create a second account in the administrative group on the system, this
account disappears from the welcome screen but it still has folders under
Documents and Settings. Save this account "for a rainy day." It's useful
for troubleshooting.

o The Local Service and Network Service accounts configured for use by
programs. Don't need to do anything with these. They're just there.

o Default User: This is a template used to create new users accounts.

o All Users: Used to stash anything shared by all users: desktop icons,
start menu items, and the like.

That's it. Guest folders will only appear if the account has been enabled
and then logged on to. Any other accounts are added by the user, by the
computer manufacturer or by the party who originally set up XP.

From what you've written, it would appear that "The Administrator" account
is the one that was renamed Ken and is now Grandpa. Reason: When you are
logged on, it is the one that shows "My Documents" in its folders. You can
confirm this by logging on to your account, clicking Start> Run and typing
in %userprofile% and click OK. Explorer will open showing the folders for
the user that is currently logged on.

When you rename an account, the name changes cosmetically only. The change
shows on the Start Menu, on the Welcome screen and a few other places. BUT
the underlying folders for the account will remain the same -- in this
case, "The Administrator." The only time that the folder names and the
displayed name match is when you create the account *and* log on to it for
the first time. It will remain matching as long as you don't rename it.

There is no way to change the name of the underlying folder name. If you
want the displayed name and folder name to match you would:

1) Using Control Panel> User Accounts: Rename your current account. Log off
and then log on at least once with the new name.
2) Also, create a new account with the desired name. Again, log on to this
account at least once. (These logons are necessary for security markers to
be written about each account.)
3) Log on to a 3rd account, in the administrative group. You can create a
temporary admin account for this and delete it when you're done. You could
use that builtin Administrator account instead but how to log on to it
depends on what version of XP you're using - home or pro.
4) While logged on to that 3rd account, use System> Advanced> User
Profiles> Settings.
5) Select the account that you want to copy from and click the Copy To
button.
6) Follow the onscreen prompts to copy the data stored in the old account
to the new account.
7) Log on to the newly created account again. Check that everything
transferred okay.
8) Use Control Panel> User Accounts to delete your old account and delete
the temporary admin account if one was created to perform the transfer.

--
Sharon F
MS MVP - Windows XP Shell/User

Thank you very much for helping me, Sharon!
I printed your instructions and proceeded but I run into a problem at the
point marked below in step 6):

"Sharon F" <sharonfDEL@ETEmvps.org> wrote in message
news:O4S8aj%23zDHA.2456@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

> On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:02:44 -0700, TK Norris wrote:
>

folder

the

screen

the

has

>
> The default account folders in XP are:
>
> o The builtin administrator account (named simply Administrator). When

you

> create a second account in the administrative group on the system, this
> account disappears from the welcome screen but it still has folders under
> Documents and Settings. Save this account "for a rainy day." It's useful
> for troubleshooting.
>
> o The Local Service and Network Service accounts configured for use by
> programs. Don't need to do anything with these. They're just there.
>
> o Default User: This is a template used to create new users accounts.
>
> o All Users: Used to stash anything shared by all users: desktop icons,
> start menu items, and the like.
>
> That's it. Guest folders will only appear if the account has been enabled
> and then logged on to. Any other accounts are added by the user, by the
> computer manufacturer or by the party who originally set up XP.
>
> From what you've written, it would appear that "The Administrator" account
> is the one that was renamed Ken and is now Grandpa. Reason: When you are
> logged on, it is the one that shows "My Documents" in its folders. You can
> confirm this by logging on to your account, clicking Start> Run and typing
> in %userprofile% and click OK. Explorer will open showing the folders for
> the user that is currently logged on.
>
> When you rename an account, the name changes cosmetically only. The change
> shows on the Start Menu, on the Welcome screen and a few other places. BUT
> the underlying folders for the account will remain the same -- in this
> case, "The Administrator." The only time that the folder names and the
> displayed name match is when you create the account *and* log on to it for
> the first time. It will remain matching as long as you don't rename it.
>
> There is no way to change the name of the underlying folder name. If you
> want the displayed name and folder name to match you would:
>
> 1) Using Control Panel> User Accounts: Rename your current account. Log

off

> and then log on at least once with the new name.
> 2) Also, create a new account with the desired name. Again, log on to this
> account at least once. (These logons are necessary for security markers to
> be written about each account.)
> 3) Log on to a 3rd account, in the administrative group. You can create a
> temporary admin account for this and delete it when you're done. You could
> use that builtin Administrator account instead but how to log on to it
> depends on what version of XP you're using - home or pro.
> 4) While logged on to that 3rd account, use System> Advanced> User
> Profiles> Settings.
> 5) Select the account that you want to copy from and click the Copy To
> button.
> 6) Follow the onscreen prompts to copy the data stored in the old account
> to the new account.

At this point I get the following error: "Failed to set Security on the
Destination Profile. Error - access is denied"
In step 2) above, I did create and log onto the new account GrandpaSmith, no
space (a couple of
times just to be sure). There is no password on this new Administrative
account.

I tried the process from a new TempAdmin account. I do see something
strange
when I try to log onto the built in Administrator account. In WinXP Pro,
from the Welcome screen, I log on
with ctl+Alt+Del twice, but if I enter Administrator in the user name box,
it will not take it. I get "Logon Message: The system could not log you on.
Make sure your User Name and domain are correct, then type your password
again. letters in the password must be typed using the correct case". I
have previously logged on to this built in Administrator account without a
password and I know I have not assigned a password to it.
Any ideas?

> 7) Log on to the newly created account again. Check that everything
> transferred okay.
> 8) Use Control Panel> User Accounts to delete your old account and delete
> the temporary admin account if one was created to perform the transfer.
>
> --
> Sharon F
> MS MVP - Windows XP Shell/User

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:21:53 -0700, TK Norris wrote:

> At this point I get the following error: "Failed to set Security on the
> Destination Profile. Error - access is denied"

If you have any encrypted files or folders in the old account, log on with
it. Remove the encryption. Then try the copy profile again.

The steps I gave you are based on the instructions in Help and Support. You
can look up "copy a user profile" there as a reference. The prime rule is
that you cannot be logged on to the account that you are copying from or
to. A link to an MS Knowledge Base article with similar but different set
of steps: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=811151

> There is no password on this new Administrative
> account.

Just to eliminate it as a problem, assign a password. You can always remove
it later.

And if all of this gets too tangled and too big of a headache to sort, take
a more direct approach. Create a new Administrator account for yourself.
Reset your preferences manually. Copy your data files manually. You may
have to take ownership of these files if you get if you get an "access
denied" message when trying to open them. "Ownership" is a topic in the
help file and there are directions for doing this.

> I do see something strange
> when I try to log onto the built in Administrator account. In WinXP Pro,
> from the Welcome screen, I log on
> with ctl+Alt+Del twice, but if I enter Administrator in the user name box,
> it will not take it. I get "Logon Message: The system could not log you on.
> Make sure your User Name and domain are correct, then type your password
> again. letters in the password must be typed using the correct case". I
> have previously logged on to this built in Administrator account without a
> password and I know I have not assigned a password to it.
> Any ideas?

Is it possible that while experimenting with user accounts that you changed
the name on this account too? Right click on My Computer and select Manage.
Under "Local Users and Groups," check the list of Users currently
configured for this system. With View> Detail selected, the builtin
Administrator account is described as such in Description column. If it has
been renamed, it will show something in the Full Name column. Try typing in
the Full Name at the logon screen (Ctrl+Alt+Del, 2 times).

--
Sharon F
MS MVP - Windows XP Shell/User

Thanks again Sharon.
I found that the folder I was trying to copy the profile from was designated
as Private, I changed that and I was able to copy the profile! When I chose
the Copy To field, it listed the GrandpaSmith/My documents folder as the
option. I wondered if the below mentioned settings, program availability
would have resided in files in the GrandpaSmith directory above the My
Document I chose?

Was I wrong to assume that the settings and the previously installed program
availability (Outlook, MS Office, dial up ISP, etc.) would have copied over
to the new user profile? I've looked under 'Help' for program associations,
settings (?) but apparently don't know the correct keyword(s) to answer
those questions.

Concerning the Administrator account, I found that the built-in
Administrators account had no name in the Full Name column (neither did the
Guest account). So, I tried logging in with the User Name blank (no work)
and I tried re-naming the blank full name to Administrator and I still could
not log in as the built-in Administrator. A question: If I have created
other Administrative accounts, should I still be able to log in with the
built-in Administrator account? I started to set a Password from this
screen but chickened out when I saw the warnings about loosing some data if
blah, blah, blah. Is that where you suggested I add the password from?
Thanks again.

"Sharon F" <sharonfDEL@ETEmvps.org> wrote in message
news:%23EIAigH0DHA.3416@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

> On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:21:53 -0700, TK Norris wrote:
>

>
> If you have any encrypted files or folders in the old account, log on with
> it. Remove the encryption. Then try the copy profile again.
>
> The steps I gave you are based on the instructions in Help and Support.

You

> can look up "copy a user profile" there as a reference. The prime rule is
> that you cannot be logged on to the account that you are copying from or
> to. A link to an MS Knowledge Base article with similar but different set
> of steps: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=811151
>

>
> Just to eliminate it as a problem, assign a password. You can always

remove

> it later.
>
> And if all of this gets too tangled and too big of a headache to sort,

take

> a more direct approach. Create a new Administrator account for yourself.
> Reset your preferences manually. Copy your data files manually. You may
> have to take ownership of these files if you get if you get an "access
> denied" message when trying to open them. "Ownership" is a topic in the
> help file and there are directions for doing this.
>

Pro,

box,

on.

I

a

>
> Is it possible that while experimenting with user accounts that you

changed

> the name on this account too? Right click on My Computer and select

Manage.

> Under "Local Users and Groups," check the list of Users currently
> configured for this system. With View> Detail selected, the builtin
> Administrator account is described as such in Description column. If it

has

> been renamed, it will show something in the Full Name column. Try typing

in

> the Full Name at the logon screen (Ctrl+Alt+Del, 2 times).
>
> --
> Sharon F
> MS MVP - Windows XP Shell/User

On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 20:55:42 -0700, TK Norris wrote:

> Thanks again Sharon.
> I found that the folder I was trying to copy the profile from was designated
> as Private, I changed that and I was able to copy the profile!

Cool.

> When I chose
> the Copy To field, it listed the GrandpaSmith/My documents folder as the
> option. I wondered if the below mentioned settings, program availability
> would have resided in files in the GrandpaSmith directory above the My
> Document I chose?

When copying a profile, select the highest folder possible for each
account. The new profile becomes a near duplicate of the old profile, and
contains the same preferences, appearance, and documents as the old
profile. Most, but not all of the extras will transfer over. (There are
many underlying security layers and these are probably why XP doesn't
change the name of that underlying folder when an account is renamed.)

Passwords for ISPs may have to be re-entered and reconfirmed. Mail account
most likely will need to be transferred manually. Check Outlook's help file
for info on how to export/import saved mail. Personally, I use pfbackup
(Personal Files backup) which is a download from the MS Office page. It is
specifically designed for transferring all Outlook data: message store,
contacts, calendar, etc.

> I still could
> not log in as the built-in Administrator. A question: If I have created
> other Administrative accounts, should I still be able to log in with the
> built-in Administrator account? I started to set a Password from this
> screen but chickened out when I saw the warnings about loosing some data if
> blah, blah, blah. Is that where you suggested I add the password from?
> Thanks again.

You should still be able to log on to the original Administrator account
even after it disappears from the Welcome screen (after other administrator
accounts are created). Click Start> Run and type in control userpasswords2

Use the controls on the screen that appears to change the password for the
Administrator account. This location does not require the old password,
just a new password and typing it a second time to confirm. Log on to the
account at least once using the new password.

--
Sharon F
MS MVP - Windows XP Shell/User

Thank you, Sharon!

I copied the old profile to a new one and browsed to the higher level folder
and almost everything came over great!

I followed your instructions on the Administrator PW and it worked perfectly
and I'm back in business!

I will monitor things awhile before I delete the old profile.

Thanks again, have a great 2004!


"Sharon F" <sharonfDEL@ETEmvps.org> wrote in message
news:eQJr42S0DHA.3216@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...

> On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 20:55:42 -0700, TK Norris wrote:
>

designated

>
> Cool.
>

availability

>
> When copying a profile, select the highest folder possible for each
> account. The new profile becomes a near duplicate of the old profile, and
> contains the same preferences, appearance, and documents as the old
> profile. Most, but not all of the extras will transfer over. (There are
> many underlying security layers and these are probably why XP doesn't
> change the name of that underlying folder when an account is renamed.)
>
> Passwords for ISPs may have to be re-entered and reconfirmed. Mail account
> most likely will need to be transferred manually. Check Outlook's help

file

> for info on how to export/import saved mail. Personally, I use pfbackup
> (Personal Files backup) which is a download from the MS Office page. It is
> specifically designed for transferring all Outlook data: message store,
> contacts, calendar, etc.
>

created

if

>
> You should still be able to log on to the original Administrator account
> even after it disappears from the Welcome screen (after other

administrator

> accounts are created). Click Start> Run and type in control userpasswords2
>
> Use the controls on the screen that appears to change the password for the
> Administrator account. This location does not require the old password,
> just a new password and typing it a second time to confirm. Log on to the
> account at least once using the new password.
>
> --
> Sharon F
> MS MVP - Windows XP Shell/User